What are you listening to now?

[Quijote]

Isn't this unprecedented? I can't think of earlier examples in Bach or elsewhere that start a piece like this.

I don't know off hand, to be honest. Your question got me scurrying to my copy of the "371" harmonized chorales and all I can come up with for the moment is chorale N° 10 (Aus tiefer Not schrei ich zu dir) used in Cantata BWV 38 which opens on a dissonant +4 (V7 in last inversion), which is not the same (not nearly as dissonant) as starting on an incomplete II2!

Here's the chorale itself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKwaz6rh468

And here's the Cantata:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjHzIFWKPOA

Not quite the same impact, agreed.

[Quijote]

Also, doesn't one of the movements from Vivaldi "4 Seasons" concertos start on an unexpected dissonance? I can't remember...

[Peter]

Also, doesn't one of the movements from Vivaldi "4 Seasons" concertos start on an unexpected dissonance? I can't remember...

Winter starts on a bar of tonic pedal then followed by a few bars of dissonance.

[Quijote]

Winter starts on a bar of tonic pedal then followed by a few bars of dissonance.

OK.
Back to the Aria from BWV 54, I suppose one could argue that it is simply a dissonance played against the tonic E-flat pedal, but its progression "suggests" to my ears a form of II65* leading to the expected V(7)-I.

* For writing these sorts of chord progressions, it would be useful to have the facility to write the superscript and lowerscript forms. Otherwise put, how can we write E=MC2, with the "2" in superscript? Or H20 with the "2" in lowerscript?

[Peter]

OK.
Back to the Aria from BWV 54, I suppose one could argue that it is simply a dissonance played against the tonic E-flat pedal, but its progression "suggests" to my ears a form of II65* leading to the expected V(7)-I.

* For writing these sorts of chord progressions, it would be useful to have the facility to write the superscript and lowerscript forms. Otherwise put, how can we write E=MC2, with the "2" in superscript? Or H20 with the "2" in lowerscript?

Yes if you'd asked me to analyse that opening in your class I would have said it was a Vd7 over tonic pedal?

[Quijote]

Yes if you'd asked me to analyse that opening in your class I would have said it was a Vd7 over tonic pedal?

Yes, more or less, given that it is an incomplete 7th (forbidden in the usual textbooks), but so what, hey? The effect is what is important, and it is a wonderful one!

[Quijote]

Do you think we could have the facility to write superscript and lowerscipt numbers (E=MC2/H20)? Not urgent, but useful. No sweat.

[Quijote]

Yes if you'd asked me to analyse that opening in your class I would have said it was a Vd7 over tonic pedal?

Anyway, thanks for posting it, it's a great piece! That's the idea of posting on this thread: you post what you've been listening to, and it's up to others to post comments as seems fit and generate a discussion.
Suits me!

[Quijote]

Now as to that Ginastera piece ...

[Peter]

Now as to that Ginastera piece ...

Which one - mine or Humoresque's?

[Peter]

Do you think we could have the facility to write superscript and lowerscipt numbers (E=MC2/H20)? Not urgent, but useful. No sweat.

No idea I'm afraid - Chris might know!

[Peter]

Anyway, thanks for posting it, it's a great piece! That's the idea of posting on this thread: you post what you've been listening to, and it's up to others to post comments as seems fit and generate a discussion.
Suits me!

Absolutely and I'm glad to have shared it with you - incidentally Bach used this cantata in his lost St.Mark Passion BWV247

[Chris]

Do you think we could have the facility to write superscript and lowerscipt numbers (E=MC2/H20)? Not urgent, but useful. No sweat.

Unfortunately, I don't think this version of vBulletin supports this directly. You can use alt codes to enter those characters, or copy and paste them from somewhere else, like here:

Superscripts: ⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹

Subscripts: ₀ ₁ ₂ ₃ ₄ ₅ ₆ ₇ ₈ ₉

Maybe at some point I can write a plug-in to make this more convenient.

[Quijote]

Unfortunately, I don't think this version of vBulletin supports this directly. You can use alt codes to enter those characters, or copy and paste them from somewhere else, like here:

Superscripts: ⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹

Subscripts: ₀ ₁ ₂ ₃ ₄ ₅ ₆ ₇ ₈ ₉

Maybe at some point I can write a plug-in to make this more convenient.

OK Chris, thanks, I'll try that next time.
Best, etc,
Quijote

[Quijote]

OK Chris, thanks, I'll try that next time.
Best, etc,
Quijote

A quick check regarding superscript and subscript numbers:
II⁶₅ - V⁷ - I.
Seems to work, great !!
Maybe make this a "sticky" for general viewing and use?