Quartet recordings

[Peter]

I'm interested in two things here - firstly hearing of any versions that are definitely NOT recommended and secondly those that are.I do not possess a complete set of the Quartets, rather I have acquired them over the years, with different artists.

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'Man know thyself'

[Stephen F Vasta]

Out of the various Beethoven Quartet recordings I've heard over the years - a random and by no means exhaustive sampling - the only recordings that I *don't* like are those of the Medici Quartet (Nimbus). To my ears, their playing is excessively slurry and imprecise - an effect exacerbated by overresonant sound.

I don't know whether the Amadeus Quartet recorded any Beethoven for DG in the old days - the Opus catalog I have handy lists none - but if they did, I would apply the same musical strictures to their performances.

My favorite Beethoven Quartets remain those of the Quartetto Italiano, for their deep, rich, and well-balanced tone. I also like the Alban Berg Quartet - a bit too cool and modern for some people, but I find their performances taut and dramatic.

Steve
Stevevasta@aol.com

[Luis]

In my case, I have the quartets 1st to 11th by the Tokyo quartet and 12th to 16th (included the gross fugue) by the Alban Berg quartet. In my opinion both are fine but I rather prefer TQ since I also consider that ABQ sounds a bit too cool. I also listened the version of the quartet no. 13 op. 130 by the TQ and it is much deeper (one can imagine the music breathing!). The sound of the ABQ is also perhaps too clean for my personal taste (particularly in the case of the cello).
I also heard about the Quartetto Italiano as one of the best recordings I guess I'll check it out.

Regards, Luis.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:

I'm interested in two things here - firstly hearing of any versions that are definitely NOT recommended and secondly those that are.I do not possess a complete set of the Quartets, rather I have acquired them over the years, with different artists.

I can tell people not to consider the late quartets by the Lindsay Quartet, their playing is generally very sloppy, most unlike their Op59 quartets, which are much better.

I have an old recording on Decca by the Fitzwilliam quartet of op132 that is almost perfect (or as perfect as you can get on modern strings!).

The Bartok Quartet are good for op127, 130 and 131. Very spirited playing, their rendition of the replacement finale of op130 is a revalation (though they habitually mis repeats which is unforgivable). Again however these are old recordings not available today.

The Medici have already been mentioned negatively, however their op18 set is pretty good in my opinion, with tempi quicker than the norm. I can also recommend the Turner Quartet on period instruments for op18.

Another recent period instrument release I bought by The Eroica Quartet of op74/95/135 is enlightening but their tempi are just too lame too often, bizarrely so in the scherzo of op135 which is played molto moderato!!! - losing the sence of momentum essential in Beethoven.

Rod



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Stephen F Vasta:

My favorite Beethoven Quartets remain those of the Quartetto Italiano, for their deep, rich, and well-balanced tone. I also like the Alban Berg Quartet - a bit too cool and modern for some people, but I find their performances taut and dramatic.

Steve
Stevevasta@aol.com

I agree with you about the Quartetto Italiano - I was fortunate in that they were my first introduction to Beethoven's quartets 20 years ago, when I purchased a recording of Op.18 no.1 which I was studying for my GCE Music 'O'Level !!

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'Man know thyself'

[Michael]

I would agree on the Quartetto Italiano set – it’s the one I keep coming back to, for all three periods. The sound is extremely good and it’s hard to believe that some of the works were recorded in the late sixties or early seventies. Their performances of Opus 74,95, 127, 131 and 135 have never been surpassed in my opinion.
Though not up to the Italians, there is very little wrong with the Medici set on Nimbus. They are a little quirky in some of their versions, but the set has good clean digital sound and is very cheap. It also includes that rarely heard masterpiece, the Opus 29 String Quintet.
I bought the Tokyo set some years ago – luckily it was in three separate sets – and I returned the middle and late ones and got my money back! Perfect playing, little soul and an acoustic that made them sound like a string octet, but the early set included Opus 29 again and the arrangement of the piano sonata, Opus 14. No. 1.
The Lindsays are okay, a little sloppy and their set of the late quartets, though it won a Gramophone Magazine award, is not up to the Italianos. They do a very fine first Rasumovsky, though. Also their lead violinist, Peter Cropper, has a “sniff” problem. This can be quite annoying, especially through headphones. I read of one man who could not tolerate the Vegh Quartet because of breathing problems (the quartet's, not his). Last I heard was that Peter Cropper was using an apparatus like a gas mask while recording some other works – this is true! Personally, I have come to like the odd little noise that indicates that four real human beings are playing in a real room somewhere!
I have only one disc of the Busch Quartet – considered by some to be the ultimate versions, and I quite like it, apart from the exaggerated portamento. However, I find mono recordings a problem in quartet music. As I cannot read a score, I need to be able to hear all the great stuff going on in the inner parts, so stereo, for me, is essential – and the greater separation the better.
It’s worth mentioning that a set of the early quartets by the Amadeus Quartet on DGG 453 760-2 has an unusual bonus. The Opus 18 set fits on two discs (which means that exposition repeats are out and that could be a major drawback) but a third disc is included containing the arrangement of Opus 14 No. 1, two fine preludes and fugues, and most interesting of all, the first “Amenda” version of Opus 18 No. 1. These are played by the Hagen Quartet. It’s fascinating to compare the two versions, especially after B. proclaimed that he “had only now learned how to compose quartets properly.”

Michael

[BobLombard]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rod:
[B] I can tell people not to consider the late quartets by the Lindsay Quartet, their playing is generally very sloppy, most unlike their Op59 quartets, which are much better.
[ENDQUOTE]
I consider the playing of the Julliard Qt. from the mid-seventies forward to be as 'cool' (actually my word would be 'hard') as the ABQ, and somewhat less precise. The Lindsays are beyond the pale in sloppiness in anything I have heard them play. The Bartok Qt. is barely acceptable in ensemble, but their spirit goes a long way toward redemption. The Budapest QT has recorded the cycle at least three times I think. The '40s cycle is the best of them (in 'historical' sound of course).

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:
The Opus 18 set fits on two discs (which means that exposition repeats are out and that could be a major drawbackMichael

I have had 3 sets of op18 in my posession that fit onto two disks, 2 with period instruments, yet all with fast tempi that allow for most or even all (if my memory serves correct) repeats to be observed (even if it means they are not placed in the order they were published). I don't consider a recording of this set if it comes on more than two disks.

Rod



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

I can put in a good word for the Alban Berg recording as well.

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"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[Rod]

Originally posted by BobLombard:
I consider the playing of the Julliard Qt. from the mid-seventies forward to be as 'cool' (actually my word would be 'hard') as the ABQ, and somewhat less precise. The Lindsays are beyond the pale in sloppiness in anything I have heard them play. The Bartok Qt. is barely acceptable in ensemble, but their spirit goes a long way toward redemption. The Budapest QT has recorded the cycle at least three times I think. The '40s cycle is the best of them (in 'historical' sound of course).
[/B]

The recent Juillard recording of op130 & op135 is unique as far as I am aware in that the repeat in the finale of op135 is actually observed. This recording received critical acclaim in the UK at least, but I haven't heard it.

Regarding the Lindsay's, their sloppiness deserted them for op59, which is very tightly performed - to an extent that I wonder if it is actually the Lindsays playing!

I understand what you say about the Bartok, but their spirit is a rare commodity in the quartet scene, and their disks were very cheap on an East European label!

Generally I'm too frightened to buy Beethoven quartet cd's, the players generally are not up to the task and never have been.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Serge]

Teh Juilliard does a good job, I agree, with the late quartets (Sony, SK 62792), but it must forever be remembered that these pieces were written almost beyond the capacities of a quartet.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Serge:
... but it must forever be remembered that these pieces were written almost beyond the capacities of a quartet.

This is an oft repeated point (I read the same in a cd review magazine only last week), one that is used also to justlfy the numerous ridiculous arrangements of these works for orchestra. I for one totally disagree with this notion. The music is pure quartet music, and the best at that. The problem lies not with the score, but the confused interpretation of performers who rarely specialise in B's quartet output, and it is also a problem with todays instruments. The human weakness seems to that those born with the ability to play are seldom born with the same ability to judge! If I had eight hands I'd play the whole lot 'single handed'!! without problem, if I could play that is...

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
The human weakness seems to that those born with the ability to play are seldom born with the same ability to judge! If I had eight hands I'd play the whole lot 'single handed'!! without problem, if I could play that is...

Rod

Therein lies the problem - it is very tempting after hours of slaving away at an impossible passage and achieving something akin to what the composer intended, when confronted by criticism to say 'you damn well play it better then !!'

Serge's point is correct in a way as this quartet music (though it is the summit of that medium) is extremely difficult to bring off in performance - it really does require almost super-human musicianship, so lesser mortals such as the Quartetto Italiano (one of the finest Beethoven quartet interpreters)have my full admiration for bringing us as close as is humanly possible to the perfection required by Beethoven.



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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Therein lies the problem - it is very tempting after hours of slaving away at an impossible passage and achieving something akin to what the composer intended, when confronted by criticism to say 'you damn well play it better then !!'

Therein lies the problem!! - performers love to spend hours arguing how to play a single bar (I have witnessed this phenomenon), but then play the movement as a whole in a totally inappropriate manner! Thus a pianist will think he is being wonderfully deep and serious playing the adagio of op106 at a length of 20+ minutes, at the same time forgetting that such undisciplined behaviour destroys the structure and unity of the work as a whole!

Perhaps it is teachers who are to blame? On whose head is the sword to be struck?

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Therein lies the problem!! - performers love to spend hours arguing how to play a single bar (I have witnessed this phenomenon), but then play the movement as a whole in a totally inappropriate manner! Thus a pianist will think he is being wonderfully deep and serious playing the adagio of op106 at a length of 20+ minutes, at the same time forgetting that such undisciplined behaviour destroys the structure and unity of the work as a whole!

Perhaps it is teachers who are to blame? On whose head is the sword to be struck?

Rod

I know what you mean - I have had a whole lesson spent on the opening bar of the 4th piano Concerto and I remember a lesson where nothing was 'played' but the rests in the Liszt Bminor sonata !
Brendel takes the Adagio of Op.106 at 19'36

I think that performers are becoming more aware of the problems you mention and are less likely to take the liberties that were common a generation ago - the authentic
movement has undoubtedly played a part in this.

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'Man know thyself'