What are you listening to now?

[Chris]

Bach's Goldberg Variations by Glenn Gould 1981. One of the true masterpieces of humanity.

True! I have been listening to some Bach played by Gould myself lately.

[Harvey]

Mahler 7. Bernstein's earlier cycle.

[Humoresque]

This miracle of a piano sonata A Major, D664, from the one and only Schubert. What's absolutely not to love? Today I was able to have an in-depth discussion about this wonderful sonata, and Schubert generally, with a friend from our music group who feels the same way I do.

"Bright star! would I were steadfast as though art" (Keats)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGg5dVoNB6c

Is there, seriously, anything better in life than listening to this music, reading about it and then being able to discuss it with another knowledgeable enthusiast? I mean, this has got to be right up there!!!

[Peter]

This miracle of a piano sonata A Major, D664, from the one and only Schubert. What's absolutely not to love? Today I was able to have an in-depth discussion about this wonderful sonata, and Schubert generally, with a friend from our music group who feels the same way I do.

"Bright star! would I were steadfast as though art" (Keats)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGg5dVoNB6c

Is there, seriously, anything better in life than listening to this music, reading about it and then being able to discuss it with another knowledgeable enthusiast? I mean, this has got to be right up there!!!

It is a lovely piece just brimming with life and joy.

[Harvey]

Boris Godunov highlights disk while I wait for my CD set of the complete opera in both the 1869 and 1872 versions to arrive.

[Peter]

Sibelius symphony no.2 - Watch the timpani player at 44'06 for some terrific playing!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4ylct1JJc[/YOUTUBE]

[Humoresque]

Love and Respect 101:

Watch the end of this Wiener Neujahrskonzert 1992 - at 1Hr 28' 45" - the orchestra refuses to stand for the cheering audience, despite a cue from Kleiber to do so; instead they are wanting to also acknowledge the great Kleiber!! Very touching, especially when they all stand up for him!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Hn0do-xKE

[Humoresque]

Liszt "Wienen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen" for organ. This is a dark, somewhat gothic piece which Liszt composed after the death of his daughter Blandine. But its final section is an exultant evocation to the God in whom Liszt so fervently believed. Out of the darkness, light!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Tduh7-4Hc

I've been reading an essay about Liszt written by Schoenberg in his "Style and Idea: Selected Writings" where the Austrian describes Liszt as essentially a composer motivated by faith who "fell into error" with regard to music. Schoenberg wasn't impressed with Liszt's music but his essay becomes more philosophical than analytical and doesn't convince for a second. This is a problem I've encountered before when reading what musicians and composers say about music - they become philosophical and tend to waffle. Twenty or more years ago I might have felt inclined to 'believe' what they had to say; today I am far more skeptical and critical.

[Humoresque]

Sibelius symphony no.2 - Watch the timpani player at 44'06 for some terrific playing!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4ylct1JJc[/YOUTUBE]

This is a very beguiling symphony; I've been working my way through the Sibelius symphonies since my comments about Brahms and his drop-dead gorgeous 4 symphonies which, AFAIC, put an end to the symphonic form. You argued that Sibelius was a great exponent of the symphony and mentioned his final one in particular - which, I understand, was not described as a symphony by the composer.

But, for me, all these symphonies by Sibelius are a joy but very different to the Brahms symphonies which were of a rigorous classical style. I feel that the symphony as a genre was never better than those 4 by Brahms any time afterwards. And Sibelius was a nationalist and this programmatic element is very strong in his symphonic works. So, I'll modify my original comments by suggesting that though wonderful symphonies were written after Brahms had completed his 4 (and the Viennese didn't take too kindly to some of them either, according to Jan Swafford), these in no way matched those by Brahms.

And musical genres change their forms and idioms. For example, the keyboard sonatas of Scarlatti bear little resemblance to the sonatas of Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven. Yet they are all still all regarded as "sonatas".

[Peter]

This is a very beguiling symphony; I've been working my way through the Sibelius symphonies since my comments about Brahms and his drop-dead gorgeous 4 symphonies which, AFAIC, put an end to the symphonic form. You argued that Sibelius was a great exponent of the symphony and mentioned his final one in particular - which, I understand, was not described as a symphony by the composer.

But, for me, all these symphonies by Sibelius are a joy but very different to the Brahms symphonies which were of a rigorous classical style. I feel that the symphony as a genre was never better than those 4 by Brahms any time afterwards. And Sibelius was a nationalist and this programmatic element is very strong in his symphonic works. So, I'll modify my original comments by suggesting that though wonderful symphonies were written after Brahms had completed his 4 (and the Viennese didn't take too kindly to some of them either, according to Jan Swafford), these in no way matched those by Brahms.

And musical genres change their forms and idioms. For example, the keyboard sonatas of Scarlatti bear little resemblance to the sonatas of Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven. Yet they are all still all regarded as "sonatas".

Whilst admiring the Brahms symphonies I can't share your assessment - we might as well say that after Beethoven nothing can compare which is indeed how the next generation felt. The main criticism of Brahms was that he was still using classical forms in a Romantic era. Bruckner I think took the symphony further by taking Beethoven's 9th as the starting point.

Listening to Bruckner's underrated 6th Symphony / Wolfgang Sawallisch.

[Humoresque]

And yet Shoenberg himself described Brahms as "a progressive" and dedicates one extended essay/chapter to that issue in his book I referred to elsewhere, "Music and Idea". In short, Shoenberg says it isn't merely a matter of form but Brahms's use of harmonies which, in many instances, went beyond those of Wagner. And Shoenberg provides many examples of this.

I myself am inclined to the view that working with 'progressive' harmonies within a classical framework actually liberated Brahms as a composer. In short, the opposite of what the poet Wordsworth once described as 'the tyranny of freedom'.

Cannot agree with you about Bruckner as I don't believe any of his symphonies resemble Beethovens or the 'direction' where 'Beethoven was heading'. What 'direction' was that, bearing in mind some musical people even regarded Beethoven as quite mad based upon his later compositions?!! (My husband is re-reading the Walker trilogy on Liszt and that has come up with reference to Beethoven as he was Liszt's hero.) It is entirely speculative on behalf of any composer, of course, to suggest where another creative artist is 'heading'. And imagine the ego and pretensions of any artist saying "I'm taking over where I think Van Gogh left off". (If that was a sculpture of a torso without a head I could understand it!!!!)

In fact, wasn't it Berlioz who believed he was moving music forward where Beethoven had left off? That belief of his falsely assumes that Beethoven's 9th Symphony represented an entirely new direction for the composer. There is a precedent; if you cast your mind back to the "Eroica" - people said the same thing about that symphony and yet he went on the write the magnificent 4th symphony in a classical form, readily understood by audiences. For a time it seemed as though things would never be the same again for Beethoven, but this wasn't the case at all.

[Peter]

Well firstly things weren't the same again after the Eroica - Beethoven expanded the classical form. We could go round in circles as regards to the true heirs of Beethoven as this debate has been going for well over a century and it's no good relying on composers opinions of other composers - Tchaikovsky for instance considered Brahms a poor composer, well behind Rubinstein. (This I have never understood).

I think the influence of Beethoven's 9th on Bruckner is quite clear, but as to resembling Beethoven, well Brahms doesn't resemble Beethoven either and thank goodness as they are both unique composers with their own voice.
I'm aware of Schoenberg's evaluation of Brahms (especially in relation to rhythm) but I can't agree on the harmonic point - where in Brahms is there anything resembling the Tristan chord or Liszt's bagatelle in no key? The Walker Liszt trilogy is an excellent read.

Sir Simon Rattle has this to say in relation to Bruckner's 9th "Bruckner moved harmony forward to a stage Wagner did not dream of. Bruckner was exceedingly important to Berg. You see so much of the same harmonic world, how much they share in their music. There are certain harmonic imprints in Berg’s music which are so similar to Bruckner’s. Webern was also connected to Bruckner: he was a wonderful Bruckner conductor, to say the least. Quite different from Schoenberg, who was more attracted to Brahms."

This debate is really outside the remit of 'what are you listening to' and perhaps would be better in a separate thread?

[Peter]

Bruckner symphony no 9/Rattle - with the completed 4th movt. Not quite sure what to make of it. Rattle claims there is more Bruckner in it than there is Mozart in his Requiem.

[Sorrano]

Bruckner symphony no 9/Rattle - with the completed 4th movt. Not quite sure what to make of it. Rattle claims there is more Bruckner in it than there is Mozart in his Requiem.

Which reconstruction is this of the 4th movement? I think I have the Carragan's somewhere in my library.

[Peter]

Which reconstruction is this of the 4th movement? I think I have the Carragan's somewhere in my library.

Samale/Phillips/Cohrs/Mazzuca

You can watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LJuesGvtSs