Beethoven string quartets

[PaulD]

Hello Everyone

i am a new member (although I have been visiting the forum for several years). Yesterday, while getting accustomed to my new iPad, it hit me! Why not join the forum in 2016? So here I am, from Montréal, Canada.

My decision to join is also motivated by a recent discussion I had with my neighbour. I was helping him plugging his TV/Blueray/DVD/CD system when I noticed he chose a Best of Beethoven CD to test it. Naturally I asked him if he was a fan...he replied "Oh, I really like Beethoven...the symphonies, the moonlight, wonderful music!" So I asked him if he liked the string quartets. "I never heard of them" he said..."Are they good?". Oh boy!

To make a long story short, I gave him my complete box set by the Quartetto Italiano (Phillips recording). I thought necessary to tell him it was not exactly Christmas music and that some of the quartets would take some getting used too. I pointed at Op.74 as a middle period example (op.131 could have been a show stopper for him...). In any case, I welcome any suggestion you may have when he returns to me about his listening experience. If he hates them, I will tell him to listen to them again. But he probably will be polite and will say he liked them while returning the entire box set to me, in which case I will tell him to keep listening. Any suggestions on possible outcomes?

Have a Great New Year Everyone!

P.

[Peter]

Welcome Paul - I think the key word is 'listen'. The quartets require concentration and effort in order to be appreciated. I think it unlikely if your friend really has listened that he will not find something to like as there is such huge variety within the quartets. My advice then to him would be to focus on what appeals and not to worry about what does not - you cannot force these things, sometimes it can take many years to come to an appreciation of some of this music, it all depends on the individual.

[Megan]

For me on first listening to Beethoven's String Quartets.
My reaction was this was some of the greatest music I have ever heard.
What made it great for me was its sublime and elevated tone. It was as though Beethoven was speaking from some far distant place that he was trying to communicate the meaning of, way beyond human experience, which I can't put into words.

Welcome to the forum PaulD.

[hal9000]

I'm with Peter on this one, don't force it. Most people go through stages listening to Beethoven - you've done your bit suggesting the quartets, it's now up to him to discover what they have to offer at his own pace. If he loves what he has already heard of Beethoven, he'll get there.

[gprengel]

I envy your neighbour because he still can discover the whole new cosmos of Beethoven' string quartetts! I remember how I first approached them with the a-minor quartett op. 132 at an age of 16 which opened a new universe to me! I especially loved all the slow movements of the late quartetts, then soon the middle period quartetts followed. Only the ones from op. 18 still don't reach me until today (besides the great slow movement from the F-Major quartett and the whole c-minor quartett).

[Michael]

Welcome to the forum, Paul.
The Italiano set happens to be my own personal favourite. I bought my first Beethoven string quartet recording back in 1970 (which was a big year for Beethoven). It was the first Razumovsky and the strange thing is I absolutely hated it. I had all the symphonies and piano concertos at this stage but I couldn't come to grips with the quartets. So I resorted to my usual practice of playing them in the background while I read a book.

I remember coming off night duty one morning, about a year later (yes - a year!) and putting on the slow movement of the first Razumovsky and suddenly everything hit me and I could hardly sleep for the rest of the day.
The string quartets are now the absolute centre of my musical existence.

I hope your friend gets to appreciate them a good deal quicker than I did. And, if he does, I hope you get your set back someday.

[Sorrano]

Welcome, Paul! The quartets took me some time as I've always been intimidated by them. As Peter said, the key word is listen.

[PaulD]

Thank for your suggestions and advice. They will help me respond to my friend when he comes back to me. I really would like him to discover and appreciate these great works. It took me several years myself to tame them all...and I know some are still somewhat elusive to me.

A few years ago, I went to listen to the orchestral version of the Grosse fugue by the Montreal Symphony Orchestra directed by Kent Nagano. The other piece featured was the Pastorale....Bizarre combination. In any case, In my opinion, the orchestral version of op.133 was not as effective as the quartet. The combined forces of the orchestra did not add to the strength of the work. Is it the general consensus about the orchestrated versions of the other quartets?

P.

[gprengel]

In my opinion, the orchestral version of op.133 was not as effective as the quartet. The combined forces of the orchestra did not add to the strength of the work. Is it the general consensus about the orchestrated versions of the other quartets?
P.

Was it a full orchestra version or only orchestra strings? I know only a version with strings and I must say that I love this more, because for quartet the Allegro part seems to be a bit too harch to my ears... But I love also the piano version op. 134...

What orchestrated versions of "the other quartets" do you mean? I know of a wonderful string orchestra version of op. 131 by L. Bernstein (and my full orchestra version of 3 movements from op. 130, which I love very much (with a first movement which I love for orchestra even more than with quartet). And the Cavatine sounds just so beautiful with added woodwinds, the same with the Lento from op.135...

[PaulD]

I am glad to hear that my negative impression of the orchestrated op.133 (for string only If I remember well) is not a general one for the other quartets. I was not referring to any particular orchestrated quartets; I just know that some have been orchestrated over the years but I never had a chance to listen to them.

Gprengel, where can I hear your version of op.130? Did you orchestrate the German Dance?

[PaulD]

Gerd, I have found your site with the mp3. I am currently listening to the cavatina. Wonderful! You gave it a different dimension. Very nice! Thank you. I look forward to listen to your other interpretations!

[Zevy]

Personally, I would recommend for any newcomer to start with op. 18 and go in order of opus numbers. I would even go so far to say that one should start with the string trios (!) first, and while you're at it, throw in the op. 29 string quintet after op. 18. I think that when presented in this context, it's a bit easier to digest.
Good luck!

[AeolianHarp]

Welcome Paul from Canada! My favourite actor was Canadian!

For me on first listening to Beethoven's String Quartets.
My reaction was this was some of the greatest music I have ever heard.
What made it great for me was its sublime and elevated tone. It was as though Beethoven was speaking from some far distant place that he was trying to communicate the meaning of, way beyond human experience, which I can't put into words.

Mine too Megan. I was enthralled- I LOVE all Beethoven's string quartets- they are truly something sublime and elevated.

[Albert Gans]

As with all approach to music, it is very individual. Asking someone how someone will react to the String Quartets (which as such already is so diverse a set) is like asking someon to look into a glass bowl and predict the future. I have on countless occasions hopefully asked people to listen to a piece of music I particularly like and they did not know.... the question is always an expression of hope: hope that that person (usually someone one likes) will share one's own preferences and predilections and can lift the relationship to another plane...
More often than not, it does not work. The reason is that music has this wonderful asset that it hits everybody on a very personal level. If I tell you that Op. 131 puts me in a different world, I will find my hopes fulfilled by comparatively many of those using this website. Not totally surprising. People who only know Beethoven superficiously, or just the main classics, are far more likely to find Op. 131 difficult to access. I agree that pushing someone has to be done with some care, because it may very well have the opposite effect of creating and strengthening the initial lack of empathy for a piece. Careful pointing in the right direction and showing emotions that you relate to a piece may help.
Also the character of a person has a lot to do with this. Is your 'victim' a patient person, does s/he understand that some pieces take time to appreciate? That one may easily fall in love with 'Alle Menschen werden Brüder', but that listening to the Hammerklavier or indeed the late String Quartets require a different mindset and openness?
All this to say that there are many hurdles that may be on the way to 'teach' someone to love a particular piece of music. And writing the previous sentence, can one 'teach' someone to love anything? Maybe....

[AeolianHarp]

Good points Albert, yet I didn't find any of his music "difficult" on first listening, well with the exception of the Grosse Fugue, but I still liked it despite it puzzling me.

I suspect this is because my ear had changed as I rarely listen to pop music these days and most people listen to that as opposed to the classical genre- there is a big contrast between the two.