Recommended recording of Missa Solemnis

[Michael Riedmuller]

I am planning on adding the Missa Solemnis to my collection and wondered if anyone could a recommendation as to which recording is the best. Thanks!

[chopithoven]

The Missa Solemnis is such a good work that any recording is good. You must hear the music itself, not the interpreter. However, Toscanini's version is good.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Michael Riedmuller:
I am planning on adding the Missa Solemnis to my collection and wondered if anyone could a recommendation as to which recording is the best. Thanks!

I am most familiar with the Leonard Bernstein (New York Phil) version. Also, I have the Gardiner version and prefer the Bernstein (sorry, Rod) because of the spirit that comes with the performance. I felt the Gardiner was flat in that respect. Chopitoven--I never even thought of trying the Toscanini--I'll have to get that and listen to it. Thanks for the idea, there!

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael Riedmuller:
I am planning on adding the Missa Solemnis to my collection and wondered if anyone could a recommendation as to which recording is the best. Thanks!

Gardiner's version on DG Archiv, or the version included in the Hanover Band Symphonies set (my preference)on Nimbus. I had Bernstein's on DG, but gave it away, too sloppy, singing not first rate either I recall (sorry Sorrano!).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-24-2002).]

[Peter]

I'm not normally a fan of Klemperer, but I do like his version of the Missa Solemnis -New Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus/Otto Klemperer (EMI CMS 7 69538 2).

As an alternative to the Gardiner with period instruments try
Orchestre des Champs Elysses and the Choeurs de la Chapelle Royale et du Collegium Vocale, directed by Philippe Herreweghe (Harmonia Mundi HMC 901557)


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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'm not normally a fan of Klemperer, but I do like his version of the Missa Solemnis -New Philharmonia Orchestra and Chorus/Otto Klemperer (EMI CMS 7 69538 2).

As an alternative to the Gardiner with period instruments try
Orchestre des Champs Elysses and the Choeurs de la Chapelle Royale et du Collegium Vocale, directed by Philippe Herreweghe (Harmonia Mundi HMC 901557)

I have Herreweghe's too - Kirie too broad, beyond toleration for me. When he gets going it gets good.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Gardiner's version on DG Archiv, or the version included in the Hanover Band Symphonies set (my preference)on Nimbus. I had Bernstein's on DG, but gave it away, too sloppy, singing not first rate either I recall (sorry Sorrano!).

The Bernstein recording I refer to is NOT the DG one. This is probably an older recording, done by Columbia (NY Phil/Westminster Choir). The emotional content of the work was much more intense in this one than the Gardiner recording I have. It is possible that the vocal quality was not up to par, but I'd have to listen to it again. It's been some time, but the emotional impact this had for me was significant.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
The Bernstein recording I refer to is NOT the DG one. This is probably an older recording, done by Columbia (NY Phil/Westminster Choir). The emotional content of the work was much more intense in this one than the Gardiner recording I have. It is possible that the vocal quality was not up to par, but I'd have to listen to it again. It's been some time, but the emotional impact this had for me was significant.

Well fair enough, but what some people may regard as emotionally intense, others may regard as melodramatic or sentimental! But I said earlier that Gardiner's Kirie was emotionally detached. More usually the problem from my experience lies with the Credo being performed to laid-back. However, you can't beat period instruments for this type of music I'm afraid.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well fair enough, but what some people may regard as emotionally intense, others may regard as melodramatic or sentimental! But I said earlier that Gardiner's Kirie was emotionally detached. More usually the problem from my experience lies with the Credo being performed to laid-back. However, you can't beat period instruments for this type of music I'm afraid.

Perhaps it would be wise for me to listen to the Gardiner again, and ignore the Kyrie. Perhaps it was the lack of emotion that turned me off to that recording. I am curious, Rod, as to your opinion concerning the recordings of Toscanini and Karajan (sorry to put those two names so close together)? I find the Karajan recordings I have fairly dynamic, but I really need to get back to the other symphonic recordings, as well. One other, Hogwood, impressed me as much as any, specifically with the 3rd Symphony.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
I am curious, Rod, as to your opinion concerning the recordings of Toscanini and Karajan (sorry to put those two names so close together)? I find the Karajan recordings I have fairly dynamic, but I really need to get back to the other symphonic recordings, as well. One other, Hogwood, impressed me as much as any, specifically with the 3rd Symphony.

Yes, Karajan is quite dynamic for his time from what I have heard, but I had a recording by him of the Missa that was very lame in places (especially in the Credo) though beautifully sung. Don't know too much about T, certainly regarding the Missa, I've read more than I've heard. I'm all for more dynamic interpretations of the 3rd!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-26-2002).]

[aqua]

Originally posted by Michael Riedmuller:
I am planning on adding the Missa Solemnis to my collection and wondered if anyone could a recommendation as to which recording is the best. Thanks!

Personally like Karajan's Missa- but know that some people do consider Karajan as something of a fake (an opinion that I don't share).

I've heard the Toscannini Missa - that was very long ago, but I remember that it didn't
impress me that much. The sound quality of that recording was pretty awful.

Toscannini is (in my opinion) is unsurpassed
for Beethoven's "second period" music. Where
he's not that great is in the metaphysics of
of Beethoven's "third" period - but then -
can't think of anybody whose recordings are superb re B's "third period".

Have never heard a Furtwangler Beethoven recording. People say that some Furtwangler Beethoven recordings are truly great.
Anybody care to describe how Furtwangler Beethoven recordings are different to those of Toscannini or Karajan ?

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes, Karajan is quite dynamic for his time from what I have heard, but I had a recording by him of the Missa that was very lame in places (especially in the Credo) though beautifully sung. Don't know too much about T, certainly regarding the Missa, I've read more than I've heard. I'm all for more dynamic interpretations of the 3rd!

Two of the most dynamic recordings I know of the 3rd are done by Toscanini and Hogwood. (Haven't heard much about Hogwood in the past 10 years or so, but when I heard his version I felt I was listening to the for the first time.) I don't know if Hogwood has done the Missa, but if so I think I'd like to get a copy of that.

[Rutradelusasa]

I have a recording with Nicolaus Harnoncourt, he is a very good conductor, but he chose to use period trombones, which overwelmed the rest of the orchestra, I think that if he had used the rest of the brass in period and had a larger strings section he would have dona a better recording, even so, it is a very good one in tempo and chorus, teldec label.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
I have a recording with Nicolaus Harnoncourt, he is a very good conductor, but he chose to use period trombones, which overwelmed the rest of the orchestra, I think that if he had used the rest of the brass in period and had a larger strings section he would have dona a better recording, even so, it is a very good one in tempo and chorus, teldec label.

I suggest he should have used the whole orchestra 'in period'!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Gardiner's version on DG Archiv, or the version included in the Hanover Band Symphonies set (my preference)on Nimbus. I had Bernstein's on DG, but gave it away, too sloppy, singing not first rate either I recall (sorry Sorrano!).

I gave this (the Gardiner) another listening to this weekend. I was very favorably impressed with the last three movements, however the first two seemed to be lacking in intensity. The allegro tempi were a slower than I would have liked (generally), particularly the allegro vivace of the Gloria. Perhaps this is a fault of the recording engineers, but the Kyrie was a little muddy to me. Often, during the 1st two movements I felt that the chorus was much better than the orchestra--but again, this might be due to the recording. Each successive movement was better than the prior in performance and overall sound. My favorite and one of the best I've heard was the Sanctus. Overall, I liked the orchestral sounds a great deal and felt that the choir did an exceptional job. There were times I felt (the the first two movements) that I was listening to Handel rather than Beethoven, but things from credo on went very well. This is a recording I will return to again and again, but I may skip the first two movements when I do.