Just to let you know plus some questions

[Falstaff]

The first part of this post is to clarify with everyone that I changed my post name. I thought Falstaff was more....creative as well as Beethoven's reference to Ignaz (I know his last name but how to spell it correctly is not in my mind at this time.) I also wanted to say happy belated christmas and new year to EVERYONE here. And...for those of you that live in Europe...how are things coming with the new euro system of money exchange?
Anyway...
My question is this: many things of Beethoven's have been left behind. his glasses, his hearing devices but what about some other things like his clothes. I know they were probally in bad condition in his older years because he dressed like a vagabond but still. What about his hat? Do we know who made these items?
Also, I recently bought a "sample" copy at a record store-its from a Beethoven cd collection which apparently has all his works. The cds are grouped according to what the pieces are. For example, one collection is piano sonatas, choral works, etc. How long have these recordings been out? What is your opinion of them?
I also saw on the American Greetings homepage you can send a card on Beethoven's Birthday which is declared "Beethoven Day". I am glad that there is such a day for a great man.
Regards

Falstaff

[Peter]

In case anyone is still wondering who Falstaff is, he is our old friend Stout who in an email a while back mentioned his alternative name of Falstaff which I suggested was far more Beethovian and appropiate for this forum!

When it comes to Beethoven's clothing I believe Joseph Lind (one of the best tailor's in Vienna) was responsible at least in 1810 when B was considering marriage to Therese von Malfatti - as to there being any examples of his work for B still in existence I very much doubt it, but I will keep a look out on the Antiques road show!

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'Man know thyself'

[Falstaff]

Peter,

Thank you for your reply. Much appreciated. Now, is Joseph Lind, the buisness still in exsistance today? And I imagine that's where Beethoven's hat came from as well.

Anyway, thanks.

Falstaff

The quote I use was found on another Beethoven web page. Is it correct?

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"Freedom above all"-L. Van Beethoven

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
In case anyone is still wondering who Falstaff is, he is our old friend Stout who in an email a while back mentioned his alternative name of Falstaff which I suggested was far more Beethovian and appropiate for this forum!

When it comes to Beethoven's clothing I believe Joseph Lind (one of the best tailor's in Vienna) was responsible at least in 1810 when B was considering marriage to Therese von Malfatti - as to there being any examples of his work for B still in existence I very much doubt it, but I will keep a look out on the Antiques road show!

I happened to watch the Antiques road show last week and they had Broadwood's great-great (I don't know how many greats) grand daughter on talking about the Broadwood's piano and a bit about Beethoven and his Broadwood. Very interesting.
Joy

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:
In case anyone is still wondering who Falstaff is, he is our old friend Stout........

Did he get kissed off with Christophe?

..........when B was considering marriage to Therese von Malfatti........

Considering it?! He wanted it! Badly.

[Claudie MICAULT]

Falstaff : about his clothes, everything was sold after his death... and the money came to Karl van Beethoven ! About the €... what changed ??? We always must pay for everything... but a little more !!!

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Claudie

[AlteGrafin]

Most of Beethoven's personal effects were scattered through an auction which was held after his death. The pieces that remain to us were mainly kept by his friends as momentos and passed down. His clothing was not preserved, although he left behind quite a bit, including 7 coats, 8 pairs of trousers, 2 hats, 6 pairs of boots, 14 shirts and various other articles of clothing. All these things are listed in Thayer's appendix as an inventory was made of Beethoven's things upon his death. I must take exception with two things: one, he did not always dress like a vagabond, but when he was immersed in his work, he took less care of his appearance. He insisted upon clean underclothes and shirts always. Second, there is no evidence that he ever wanted to marry Therese Malfatti. This is a myth which has been handed down and somehow has gained acceptance. If one looks closely at the situation, one sees that there is no proof that this contention was true.

[AlteGrafin]

I should have also commented on the "Beethoven Complete Works" by Deutsche Grammophon which came out a few years ago. This collection is not bad, but hardly "complete." What they should have said was "complete RECORDED music to date." Also, the "best" recordings are a matter of their opinion. I have not always agreed with them on their choices.

[Rod]

Originally posted by AlteGrafin:
I should have also commented on the "Beethoven Complete Works" by Deutsche Grammophon which came out a few years ago. This collection is not bad, but hardly "complete." What they should have said was "complete RECORDED music to date." Also, the "best" recordings are a matter of their opinion. I have not always agreed with them on their choices.

I agree, we have comented here before about this 'Complete' Works lack of completeness, especially regarding the string quintet op4. I have the lieder from this set, if not perfect at least a convenient and reasonably priced collection, but nothing more. Convenience is the name of the game with the Complete Works edition, not quality. DG would not put all their golden eggs in one basket, who would then buy their other releases?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 02-21-2002).]

[Claudie MICAULT]

Originally posted by AlteGrafin:
Most of Beethoven's personal effects were scattered through an auction which was held after his death. The pieces that remain to us were mainly kept by his friends as momentos and passed down. His clothing was not preserved, although he left behind quite a bit, including 7 coats, 8 pairs of trousers, 2 hats, 6 pairs of boots, 14 shirts and various other articles of clothing. All these things are listed in Thayer's appendix as an inventory was made of Beethoven's things upon his death. I must take exception with two things: one, he did not always dress like a vagabond, but when he was immersed in his work, he took less care of his appearance. He insisted upon clean underclothes and shirts always. Second, there is no evidence that he ever wanted to marry Therese Malfatti. This is a myth which has been handed down and somehow has gained acceptance. If one looks closely at the situation, one sees that there is no proof that this contention was true.

All is pure truth Alte Grafin. I was coming back just to say exactly the same after I found back in THAYER the list of the clothes. For this time Beethoven was a very cleaned person, always bathing a with fresh underclothes. It was quite rare in 1800...
It is an horror to see in the THAYER list that all the autographe music has been auctionned LESS that the printed one...



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Claudie

[Stephen J. Wade]

Does Duetche Grammophon have their own marketing site? The selection at the local San Diego music stores seems to grow smaller and smaller each time I visit.

Originally posted by AlteGrafin:
I should have also commented on the "Beethoven Complete Works" by Deutsche Grammophon which came out a few years ago. This collection is not bad, but hardly "complete." What they should have said was "complete RECORDED music to date." Also, the "best" recordings are a matter of their opinion. I have not always agreed with them on their choices.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Stephen J. Wade:
Does Duetche Grammophon have their own marketing site? The selection at the local San Diego music stores seems to grow smaller and smaller each time I visit.

Try supporting the CD store on this site!
http://www.kingsbarn.vstoreclassical.com/

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'Man know thyself'

[Stephen J. Wade]

Thanks Peter. I checked out the site. Its very extensive. But still I can't find the Complete Works of B.

Originally posted by Peter:
Try supporting the CD store on this site!
http://www.kingsbarn.vstoreclassical.com/

[Michael]

Originally posted by Stephen J. Wade:
Thanks Peter. I checked out the site. Its very extensive. But still I can't find the Complete Works of B.

If you are thinking of purchasing the Complete Works, the full serial number is DGG 453 700-2. It is still available at about 450 pounds sterling. I would hesitate to recommend such a huge purchase unless you are a complete and utter Beethoven nut (as I am!)
It cost me five hundred Irish pounds about four years ago and I haven't regretted it.
The trouble with a complete set like that is that your individual choice of artist or orchestra is limited to what Deutsche Grammophon decide, but being the label that it is, there are few duds (except for Karajan's Sixth!) I received a very comprehensive catalogue from DGG before purchasing.
No edition can be "complete" and there are two or three serious omissions but the list compares very favourably with that given in the "Beethoven Compendium". It does not contain any fragments of compositions.
I had to beware of CD duplication because I already owned eighty per cent. of Beethoven's works before I splashed out on the "Complete" Edition, but then I said I was a nut, didn't I?
Interestingly, this is the only complete edition to come out without any composer centenary or anniversary.

Michael

Sorry - made a mess of the serial number - it should be DGG 453 700-2 (it may be amended above) and I ordered it through my local CD shop.

[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 02-27-2002).]


[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 02-27-2002).]