When did Beethoven start his romance with Guicciardi, 1800 or 1801?

[thesunlover]

Hi Harp,

Are you interested in this book?

Beethoven and His "Immortal Beloved" Josephine Brunsvik
Her Fate and the Influence on Beethoven's OEuvre
By Marie-Elisabeth Tellenbach
Translated by John E Klapproth

I downloaded it online 2 weeks ago, but now forgot about the link. You may google it if you like.

[thesunlover]

Harp,

I've found that there are some, if not many, errors or mistakes in Klapproth's book. Would you like to start a discussion for them?

[AeolianHarp]

Hi Harp,

Are you interested in this book?

Beethoven and His "Immortal Beloved" Josephine Brunsvik
Her Fate and the Influence on Beethoven's OEuvre
By Marie-Elisabeth Tellenbach
Translated by John E Klapproth

I downloaded it online 2 weeks ago, but now forgot about the link. You may google it if you like.

Is it a free ebook?

[AeolianHarp]

Harp,

I've found that there are some, if not many, errors or mistakes in Klapproth's book. Would you like to start a discussion for them?

What errors? He is fluent in the German language being German. If the errors are cited by Solomon then no, as the man is a scoundrel!

[Decrepit Poster]

Is it a free ebook?

I just downloaded it here: https://www.createspace.com/pub/comm....do?id=1148940 Cost me nothing. Each page, however, carries a DRAFT watermark, which doesn't hinder reading. I did not scroll to the end to see if the book is presented complete. For the moment I consider it legit.

I'll not read it until after finishing the Swafford, which is a long way off.

[AeolianHarp]

I just downloaded it here: https://www.createspace.com/pub/comm....do?id=1148940 Cost me nothing. Each page, however, carries a DRAFT watermark, which doesn't hinder reading. Not did I scroll to the end to see if the download is complete. For the moment I consider it legit.

I'll not read it until after finishing the Swafford, which is a long way off.

Thanks DP! The last chapter shows how that scoundrel Solomon bent the truth for untrue and salacious facts, which unfortunately other writers of Beethoven's life have taken as facts. Tallenbach is German and had access to reading Beethoven's diary in German, so is a reliable source.

[AeolianHarp]

I am just reading some of this book now- there's some very interesting things about Minona Stackleberg in here.

[thesunlover]

Decrepit Poster, Thank you for finding the link.

Harp, Yes. It provides some 'new' info about Minona.

[thesunlover]

Minona was taken away or kidnapped by ST in 1814, and was brought back to Vienna in 1819. Did she ever come back home in Vienna between 1814 and 1819?

[AeolianHarp]

Minona was taken away or kidnapped by ST in 1814, and was brought back to Vienna in 1819. Did she ever come back home in Vienna between 1814 and 1819?

I have been reading this all day sunlover and my head is spinning with all this information- the whole book is so incredibly moving. The nobility of feeling Beethoven had is just so admirable; what an incredible man.

I am reading the chapter on his Late works- I am especially struck by what Tellenbach writes about the spiritual quality of his late piano sonatas and how they were like musical memories of his life- the first time I heard them (October last year) right away this was apparent to me and I hadn't read a lot about his life then either.

I will have to get back to you regarding Minona- but in the meantime have a look at the book yourself and see what Tellenbach says. Then we can compare our findings.

[AeolianHarp]

From Tallenbach:

When we begin to discover the discreet background of his existence since 1812, we will finally be able to fully appreciate the magnitude of the tragedy in his life and the sincerity and dignity, with which he bore his destiny. His consistency testifies to the deepness and passion of his character, his silence to its strength.

Contrary to Goethe, who found a new harmony of life after each crisis, Beethoven, in 1816, spoke of a harmony he never found again. His life is not an artwork of mental balance, like that of the poet, but the work of a man who never evaded painful consequences. Thus his sufferings became a step to the inner world, in which he created his late compositions, the "Holy Ground" of the last Sonatas.

Very well put.

[Fredrika]

Harp,

I've found that there are some, if not many, errors or mistakes in Klapproth's book. Would you like to start a discussion for them?

Hi Sunlover, another reader of Klapproth here. What mistakes have you found?

[thesunlover]

I haven't read that part yet.

It is so well said. It's also what I thought. Op.111 is the summary of Beethoven's whole life. You must listen to Op.111 in order to understand Beethoven well.

I am reading the chapter on his Late works- I am especially struck by what Tellenbach writes about the spiritual quality of his late piano sonatas and how they were like musical memories of his life- the first time I heard them (October last year) right away this was apparent to me and I hadn't read a lot about his life then either.

[thesunlover]

Hi Fredrika,

Nice to meet you. I love Finlandia very much

Hi Sunlover, another reader of Klapproth here. What mistakes have you found?

[thesunlover]

Mistake one: Chapter 1815, Page 126

"Beethoven 1055-56 Seilerstaat (62)"

(62) Therese's Diary, 1816, p.106