Did Beethoven copy Haydn
I'm researching Beethoven sonatas and wondered if anyone has any views on how closely he copied Haydn (his teacher) and his piano sonata model.
-
-
I think the early sonatas of Beethoven owe more to Clementi, C.P.E.Bach and Dussek.
------------------
'Man know thyself''Man know thyself' -
Whatever B learned from Haydn I doubt it had anything to do with the piano as Beethoven played it!Originally posted by Alastair:
I'm researching Beethoven sonatas and wondered if anyone has any views on how closely he copied Haydn (his teacher) and his piano sonata model.
------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
-
B's developmental techniques may have some similarity as Haydn's at first glance, in some of the sonatas, but whatever he might have "copied" (in terms of skills and technique), he expanded and elaborated on it. I don't think it unusual to pick up certain imitative tendencies, even subconsciously, when working with a person (Haydn) as closely during that time he was a student. I've always felt that B was closer allied to Haydn than Mozart because of his developmental skills and resource in economy of notes.Originally posted by Alastair:
I'm researching Beethoven sonatas and wondered if anyone has any views on how closely he copied Haydn (his teacher) and his piano sonata model.Comment
-
NO WAY! Beethoven is much better than Haydn.Comment
-
Beethoven did actually learn quite a lot from Haydn, more than he himself was prepared to admit. The Scherzo, Sonata Rondo form, orchestration, key relationships, rhythm are just some areas where his influence is strongest.Originally posted by chopithoven:
NO WAY! Beethoven is much better than Haydn.
------------------
'Man know thyself''Man know thyself'Comment
-
You are absolutely right, there!Originally posted by chopithoven:
NO WAY! Beethoven is much better than Haydn.Comment
-
Well, forms and key relationships maybe, but B's general piano technique was largely perfected, to my ears, without H's assistance by the age of 15 (ie the 3 piano quartets). I've no need to ask you what H would have made of many of even B's earlier keyboard works from the Vienna period.Originally posted by Peter:
Beethoven did actually learn quite a lot from Haydn, more than he himself was prepared to admit. The Scherzo, Sonata Rondo form, orchestration, key relationships, rhythm are just some areas where his influence is strongest.
------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
Comment