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**Peter** · 02-20-2014, 06:01 PM

Sorry but no this doesn't give me hope - quite the opposite! I know a lot of people like crossover but is there any real evidence that they then migrate towards classical in its original form? I don't know, but I confess to being a purist (even if that's unpopular these days) and like my Beethoven as he intended it, and so did he, as he made pretty clear on several occasions. Sorry to be negative about it, especially as you obviously respond well to it, but I have to be honest and in the long run don't think it is the way to go, merely a marketing gimmick that panders to the popular culture of our day.

What is a reason for hope though is that according to the Association of British Orchestras, audiences at classical concerts in the UK have gone up 16% since 2010. Maybe I'm wrong and crossover has played a part in this - would be interesting to know.

**AeolianHarp** · 02-20-2014, 06:58 PM

Sorry but no this doesn't give me hope - quite the opposite! I know a lot of people like crossover but is there any real evidence that they then migrate towards classical in its original form? I don't know, but I confess to being a purist (even if that's unpopular these days) and like my Beethoven as he intended it, and so did he, as he made pretty clear on several occasions. Sorry to be negative about it, especially as you obviously respond well to it, but I have to be honest and in the long run don't think it is the way to go, merely a marketing gimmick that panders to the popular culture of our day.

Er yes, I know a few people who have got interested in Classical music like this Peter..and I find this music so uplifting and beautiful- the cello player is really good.

What is a reason for hope though is that according to the Association of British Orchestras, audiences at classical concerts in the UK have gone up 16% since 2010. Maybe I'm wrong and crossover has played a part in this - would be interesting to know.

Peter, it does...it's a way in for people who might never listen to classical music of the earlier centuries; comments on you tube show this. Also the band Sigur Ros from Iceland also use classical elements in their music to great effect- many people are profoundly moved by their music. I don't need to tell you how much I love 18th and 19th century classical music, but we are in the 21st century and so what is written now is not going to be the same...I don't think there is anything wrong with cross over classical at all. These guys are playing with orchestras, young people are getting excited about classical music, playing instruments...people are being uplifted by their music...I think this is a positive thing.Isn't this what classical music should be about? I am certain our dear Maestro would not disapprove of this at all.

**Peter** · 02-20-2014, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by AeolianHarp View Post

Er yes, I know a few people who have got interested in Classical music like this Peter..and I find this music so uplifting and beautiful- the cello player is really good.

Peter, it does...it's a way in for people who might never listen to classical music of the earlier centuries; comments on you tube show this. Also the band Sigur Ros from Iceland also use classical elements in their music to great effect- many people are profoundly moved by their music. I don't need to tell you how much I love 18th and 19th century classical music, but we are in the 21st century and so what is written now is not going to be the same...I don't think there is anything wrong with cross over classical at all. These guys are playing with orchestras, young people are getting excited about classical music, playing instruments...people are being uplifted by their music...I think this is a positive thing.Isn't this what classical music should be about? I am certain our dear Masetro would not disapprove of this at all.

Maybe you are right and certainly it is a good thing if it introduces people to classical - I hope it does and that a seed has been sown for them. Of course what is written now is not going to be the same, but should it really be a rehash of the past, shouldn't it be completely new and original as Beethoven was in his day? If all Beethoven had written was variations on popular themes by other composers he would have been forgotten long ago!

I have to ask why can't people be uplifted and excited by the music in its original form? Why do they need to have 'sexed up' versions? I well remember the thrill as a child of discovering all this wonderful music for the first time - what has changed? Certainly not the music - society.

But this isn't really new - we have been here before with composers such as Liszt who though he was a fine composer, produced a lot of empty trash to dazzle the crowds. He recognised this himself and retired from the concert platform to focus on composing seriously.

**AeolianHarp** · 02-20-2014, 08:34 PM

Maybe you are right and certainly it is a good thing if it introduces people to classical - I hope it does and that a seed has been sown for them. Of course what is written now is not going to be the same, but should it really be a rehash of the past, shouldn't it be completely new and original as Beethoven was in his day? If all Beethoven had written was variations on popular themes by other composers he would have been forgotten long ago!

Peter...I don't think anyone could be as original and innovative as Beethoven! I think classical music of the 18th and 19th centuries was the apex of music and there is nothing further that could be developed...unless a time traveller captures one of the composers in a time machine and brings them to our time! Their genius we will not see the like of again.

I have to ask why can't people be uplifted and excited by the music in its original form? Why do they need to have 'sexed up' versions? I well remember the thrill as a child of discovering all this wonderful music for the first time - what has changed? Certainly not the music - society.

Of course...but think of how people are today. So many would not just put on a classical radio station or buy a CD of Bach just like that. Heck, even I hated most classical music just 7 years ago! Now Piano Guys' music was on an advert and it has brought people in droves to you tube...and now when they click on that video they see an inspiring quote by Ludwig van Beethoven about art.. they hear a tribute to him...they get curious and then they discover his music... It's a way in Peter.

But this isn't really new - we have been here before with composers such as Liszt who though he was a fine composer, produced a lot of empty trash to dazzle the crowds. He recognised this himself and retired from the concert platform to focus on composing seriously.

Liszt noooo..that Gaga thing is empty trash!

**Peter** · 02-21-2014, 06:21 AM

I hope you're right, but I well remember in the early 80s 'Hooked on classics' which was hugely popular for a time,(who remembers or listens to that now?) and attempted the same sort of thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooked_on_Classics

**AeolianHarp** · 02-21-2014, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Peter View Post

I hope you're right, but I well remember in the early 80s 'Hooked on classics' which was hugely popular for a time,(who remembers or listens to that now?) and attempted the same sort of thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooked_on_Classics

I do...they did something hideous with disco beats....this is not the same Peter- they are not disco beating it.

**Peter** · 02-21-2014, 01:04 PM

I'd be interested to know what converted you to classical and why you so disliked it before?
Here's a story from another young convert - http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.c...b478ce8ca.html

**AeolianHarp** · 02-21-2014, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Peter View Post

I'd be interested to know what converted you to classical and why you so disliked it before?
Here's a story from another young convert - http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.c...b478ce8ca.html

Well, the same as many people Peter- we grow up with pop music everywhere, with the pop videos, being told pop stars are "cool" and exciting etc. And not hearing classical except on adverts, the sterotype of it being old and for posh folks etc.

I liked one or two from hearing them in films like Rachmaninov in Brief Encounter and funnily enough Beethoven's Pastorale ( though I have no idea when I first heard that).

Now, given I am mad on history, upon looking back it does seem odd that I didn't like the music from the periods I am so fascinated with.

What changed all that was doing an arts volunteer job in an art gallery- during the lectures the lecturer played us snippets of classical music to illustrate the artistic periods ( e.g Baroque) and a light started to come on.

She mentioned Chopin's nocturnes and it got me so intrigued that I went on you tube. I was amazed- what had I been missing all these years?

I began to listen to his piano music, then put on classic FM and I was OMG these composers- wow!! And one day radio 2 never was put on again.

Of course, I knew classical music was "good" but I thought it old and boring. I simply had not heard it! I even didn't think it had tunes, but was just a series of notes- you see how lsitening to the same old tired chords in pop music ruins the listening ear.

Oh I agree with what this person says:

Without words, the songs just seemed to drag on and on with no point or meaning. Music without words just seemed so … boring — snooze-worthy, even.

Looking back, I am appalled I ever considered classical music to be anything less than magic. I didn’t understand one very simple truth: Music doesn’t need words to come alive; it needs emotion. Without emotion, music is dead.

Music doesn’t need to rant about a tragic breakup or an all-night party to be amazing. Real, genuine music can tell a story, set a mood, without a single word. It has been said that “music is what feelings sound like.”

This may sound crazy to you, but an orchestra is a storyteller. If you take the time to close your eyes and listen instead of grumbling about the “boring old classical music,” you can go on a journey. You can fly from a royal masquerade filled with dancing guests to the heart of a battlefield, surrounded by courageous soldiers.

Music is a world all its own, where the beating of the drums marks the footsteps of armies and the flutes carry the songs of the birds. Classical music describes a beautiful picture, but if you don’t set your imagination free to paint, you will miss out on the final masterpiece, and, yes, all you will hear is random, meaningless notes.

**Peter** · 02-21-2014, 04:57 PM

Very interesting - thanks for sharing that.

**AeolianHarp** · 02-21-2014, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by Peter View Post

Very interesting - thanks for sharing that.

I suspect if I had grown up in a musical family who listened to classical music and played some instruments I would have loved it all along. It is mostly opportunity Peter.

And the Waldstein sonata is far far more exciting than electric guitar!

**AeolianHarp** · 02-21-2014, 08:29 PM

As an aside what do you think of Nigel Kennedy's Mozart cadenza 0.3.11- 0.3.54?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aPlW9p1Tb4

Now, I am not familiar with the original cadenza but I do like how this sounds- so liquid.

And what do you think of him turning pop ( The Doors) into this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAPiRuw1Oug

**Peter** · 02-22-2014, 06:26 AM

Nigel Kennedy's cadenzas are fine and original but say more about his love of Jazz - I don't think they work in the context. The best cadenzas for the Beethoven concerto are the highly original ones Beethoven wrote with timpani accompaniment for the piano arrangement of the violin concerto, brilliantly transcribed for violin and played by the incomparable Wolfgang Schneiderhan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwerUNXguM

**AeolianHarp** · 02-22-2014, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Peter View Post

Nigel Kennedy's cadenzas are fine and original but say more about his love of Jazz - I don't think they work in the context. The best cadenzas for the Beethoven concerto are the highly original ones Beethoven wrote with timpani accompaniment for the piano arrangement of the violin concerto, brilliantly transcribed for violin and played by the incomparable Wolfgang Schneiderhan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwerUNXguM

Thanks for that Peter.

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