biography

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:
.....Mendelsohnn whose works are consistently marred by their feminine cadences and their polished 'politeness'.

Feminine cadences?? Just what ideas are you filling your students' heads with, Peter?!

There'll be questions in the House, I tell you.....

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
And I'm sure Joy actually meant 12 minutes past 5!

Tea-time with LvB (pass the sugar).....

Or 17th Dec - 1 day after B's birth!

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
Feminine cadences?? Just what ideas are you filling your students' heads with, Peter?!

There'll be questions in the House, I tell you.....

Rather non PC these days - feminine cadences finish on the weak beat of the bar!

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'Man know thyself'

[kfarad]

are you saying that Mendelssohn was gay?

Yeah, I guess you're right about the form in the scottish symphony... last time I listened throughly to it was before I knew enough about form. But what about the pictorialism that Mend. uses so much (and is so good at)? Is that "Beethovenesque"? I supposed B comes close in the Pastoral Symphony... but he is much more of an absolute music kind of guy.

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by kfarad:
are you saying that Mendelssohn was gay?

Yeah, I guess you're right about the form in the scottish symphony... last time I listened throughly to it was before I knew enough about form. But what about the pictorialism that Mend. uses so much (and is so good at)? Is that "Beethovenesque"? I supposed B comes close in the Pastoral Symphony... but he is much more of an absolute music kind of guy.

Correct, I did not say they were identical. There are differences between the two of them just as there are differences between everyone who's ever lived. What I was saying is that there were more similarities beetween Beethoven and Mendelsohn, than between beethoven and most other composers.

Bob

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Some have said I am ripe for the Madhouse. Does that make me Beethoven? No, but it is interesting.

[kfarad]

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
Correct, I did not say they were identical. There are differences between the two of them just as there are differences between everyone who's ever lived. What I was saying is that there were more similarities beetween Beethoven and Mendelsohn, than between beethoven and most other composers.

Bob

OK.

So what about Beethoven & Brahms? vs. Beethoven & Mend.?

I think Brahms is more similar.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
What I was saying is that there were more similarities beetween Beethoven and Mendelsohn, than between beethoven and most other composers.

Bob

Hmm!!!!!!

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'Man know thyself'

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by kfarad:
OK.

So what about Beethoven & Brahms? vs. Beethoven & Mend.?

I think Brahms is more similar.

Actually, I had considered adding "(with the possible exception of Brahms and Ives)", but decided not to, as Brahms is less emotionally restrained, and Ives is more of a modernist than I had previously thought. Beethoven's works display more self control, whereas Brahms's works are big splashy displays of emotional color. This very morning, I had an interesting challenge from one of my music teachers. I was given a pile of notecards with some of the pages from the third movement of Brahms's violin concerto (but not all of them, and they were out of order) glued on, and was asked to sort them into order with only a recording to help me. It was rather difficult at first, but I eventually accomplished it after having listened to the movement for nearly an hour while patiently sorting through the cards. Although there are similarities between this movement and the corresponding movement of Beethoven's concerto, Beethoven's is more formal and restrained, and therefore a little more energetic, whereas Brahms's is more emotional, and sometimes drags on a bit, especially towards the end. Mendelsohn, on the other had, also tended to use the traditional forms, and showed restraint, (although perhaps on occasion too much restraint) and thus, there are more similarities. I am not saying that emotions should be left out of music, or that big splashy displays are always bad (the third movement of the Brahms concerto is the best of the three, even though it is probably the least restrained). What I am saying is that there is a difference, and that sometimes, there can be such a thing as too much emotion, without a basis from experience.

Bob

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Some have said I am ripe for the Madhouse. Does that make me Beethoven? No, but it is interesting.

[kfarad]

Overflowing emotion is more a Romantic thing than a Brahmsian. In that way, Beethoven was classical.

The thing is, Mend. just generally doesn't feel like Brahms & Beethoven. B&B feel like they are almost always making a profound artistic statement. With Mend. it's more frivolous-feeling. Also Mend. didn't compose as much because unfortunately he died so young so he didn't reach as full an arc as Brahms & Beethoven.

Of course you could find counter examples to both this and the overflowing emotions part, but this is generally speaking.


And about the pages-- haha... I had to do that once too... but not for an assignment-- for real... It was Schubert's (now there's a Beethoven successor) Quartet No. 15. I photocopied it, but the order got messed up. And the page numbers were cut off on the copies, and I already returned the original. Yeah. It was fun.

[Peter]

Originally posted by kfarad:


It was Schubert's (now there's a Beethoven successor)

I don't think Schubert can be regarded in any way as B's successor, for one thing he only outlived B by 21 months! - but more importantly, musically speaking I think he was on a different path which led to Romanticism. The early Romantics were very much influenced by Italian opera - in Schubert this is already evident with his 2 Italian overtures and the 6th Symphony that owes something to Rossini.

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'Man know thyself'