Classical music dying in the US?

[Peter]

Are things really this bad with classical music in the US? I hope not, but this story paints a dismal image, in stark contrast to what is happening in China.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c...th_s_door.html

[AeolianHarp]

Well mindless superfical pop music rules. Sad.

I will make a confession- I used to hate most classical music up to only about 2008!!! I liked the odd one shown on an advert, (and Greig's Morning) but I couldn't have told you what the music was, least of all who composed it. I cannot even remember hearing Moonlight Sonata for the first time ( well first movement)..buuuuut I do remember this- somehow in my childhood I heard the Pastoral Symphony and liked that a lot. I have no memory where I heard it- my family never listened to classical music, nor did we have any instruments in our house. When I heard the Pastoral recently in full it felt so familiar and the feeling of joy came with it.

In around 2008 I was volunteering in an art gallery and having art history lectures and some classical pieces were played to us as part of the lectures. I thought oh these are actually good! The lecturer mentioned Chopin's nocturnes. I got curious and you tubed and I was wow, what have I been missing all these years!


It really was a revelation- in a matter of weeks I was listening to Classic FM radio, ditched pop music and on a whole new musical discovery journey! I even got a piano!
Of course dear Beethoven was discovered and here I am! And when I first heard the third movement of the Moonlight welll...it was OMG...

The interesting thing is though if you had asked me who the greatest composer who ever lived is I would always have said Beethoven, even if I only knew one or two of his pieces.I always knew classical was more complex and deeper than pop- the thing is I just had not listened to it. I think this is the thing- pop music is everywhere- in shops, tv, pop stars' latest antics splashed all over the media- classical just does not get the same exposure. The sheeple do not tend to look for anything else.

[glindhot]

I know nothing about the American situation, but I have heard about the imminent death of classical music again and again and ag…….

60 years ago when I began going to concerts, very few young people attended; the gray-heads outnumbered them many times over. Music experts were extremely worried that the young were losing interest and warned that this could lead to the demise of classical music.

Recently, another music expert said much the same thing; that audiences were a sea of gray with few young people. She forecast dire consequences unless modern ideas were used to coax the young to return.

That is nonsense. Ask yourself these questions: (1) If there were very few young people in the audiences 60 years ago how come present-day audiences are a sea of gray? (2) Where did the current bunch of gray-heads come from?

Today's gray-headed concert-goers are the young people of 60 years ago who did NOT go to concerts 60 years ago but go now. Audiences have lots of middle-aged newbies to classical music. This occurs when their kids are grown up and off their hands, and the mortgage is paid, and they suddenly have heaps of spare money.

Audiences don't change in their basic demographics; they consist of a handful of young people, hordes of middle-aged graying newcomers, and old grey-heads gradually dying off. And so audiences tend to look like a sea of gray, generation after generation. This is the way it's always been and always will be.

There was actually a temporary increase in grey-heads which happened for non-musical reasons. At the end of WW2 the post-war baby-boom began. Because of their sheer number, those baby-boomers, on reaching reached retirement swelled concert audiences. Also, they were affluent and prepared to spend money, and hang the expense, resulting in concert prices escalating to ridiculous levels, shutting out the young who couldn’t afford the extortionate costs.

And there is another non-musical reason for more gray-heads: In the old days, I would feel sad if I DIDN'T see some hoary-headed swain in the audience. Reason? He would be dead! Now, we have an aging population resulting in additional grey-headed music-lovers sitting in concert halls rather than lying in their coffins. Inevitably, this causes audiences to be even grayer, yet the music experts are worrying about it. How crazy is that? Would they prefer the oldies to be dead? Thoughtless, wrong-headed thinking and negative comment by some people is damaging the image of classical music.

The reason why proportionally fewer young people attend classical concerts and operas is not a decline in their interest. The fault's not with them but rather with a money-hungry classical music industry that has priced them out of attending. The young who have missed out will look for something they can afford and then they may be lost to classical music forever.

[Peter]

I know nothing about the American situation, but I have heard about the imminent death of classical music again and again and ag…….

60 years ago when I began going to concerts, very few young people attended; the gray-heads outnumbered them many times over. Music experts were extremely worried that the young were losing interest and warned that this could lead to the demise of classical music.

Unfortunately the research data doesn't agree -

"Which brings us to demographics. Sandow notes that back in 1937, the median age at orchestra concerts in Los Angeles was 28.
Between 1982 and 2002, the portion of concertgoers under 30 fell from 27 percent to 9 percent; the share over age 60 rose from 16 percent to 30 percent. In 1982 the median age of a classical concertgoer was 40; by 2008 it was 49.

If classical music was merely becoming the realm of the old—an art form that many of us might grow into appreciating—that might be manageable. But Sandow’s data on the demographics of classical audiences suggest something worse. Younger fans are not converting to classical music as they age."


Regarding pricing of concerts - I would suggest this is nothing to do with it - hoards of rocks fans will pay astronomical prices to see their heroes in action. In contrast it is possible to attend first rate classical music recitals for free in Churches or for only a small amount at local events.

No, it is down to a lack of education and a culture that values little beyond the immediate thrill. As I mentioned there is a great contrast with the east, in particular China where Classical music is growing in popularity with large numbers taking up musical instruments.

[AeolianHarp]

Regarding pricing of concerts - I would suggest this is nothing to do with it - hoards of rocks fans will pay astronomical prices to see their heroes in action. In contrast it is possible to attend first rate classical music recitals for free in Churches or for only a small amount at local events.

I agree with you Peter- they pay anything between £70-100 to see those prancing pop stars. They spend more than the price of a classical music ticket on ipads, new mobile phones, IT gadgets, etc.....
As for the prices of classical concert tickets- in my home town you can get a seat for as little as £13!

https://boxoffice.liverpoolphil.com/...1-4052E8B3922B

I have seen all ages in the audience I have to say- even children and some of the children are so excited they are bouncing in their seats!

No, it is down to a lack of education and a culture that values little beyond the immediate thrill. As I mentioned there is a great contrast with the east, in particular China where Classical music is growing in popularity with large numbers taking up musical instruments.

Agreed!

[Enrique]

Are things really this bad with classical music in the US? I hope not, but this story paints a dismal image, in stark contrast to what is happening in China.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/c...th_s_door.html

There are more concert halls in Japan than in the whole of Western Europe and China is on the footsteps of Japan. So I think the scene is not disconcerting.

[Peter]

There are more concert halls in Japan than in the whole of Western Europe and China is on the footsteps of Japan. So I think the scene is not disconcerting.

On the contrary it proves the point! Classical music is the cultural heritage of the West and we are content with the situation you correctly describe? Of course it is wonderful that the beauty and message of classical music is now understood and appreciated by the East, but for the West to be indifferent is shameful.

[Enrique]

Firstly, I exaggerated. Japan has more concert halls than any country in Western Europe is the correct statement. Secondly, I think the West is on the decline. Ours is a 2500 years old civilization and they, notwithstanding their long past, are new to that civilization. I see it like the enthusiasm Romans showed for things Greek, when Greece already was in the decadence. In fact, they should feel sorrow too. In the cities they have abandoned the traditions, the old ways and the old music. Ours is being a destructive influence now more than in the opium trade era I mean, since the first clashes with Western civilization.

[AeolianHarp]

On........ but for the West to be indifferent is shameful.

Indeed it is- but have hope Peter- when I go to concerts there are not many empty seats! Also, I am now getting to the stage when I try to introduce people to classical when I can..well if anyone visits me that's what they are going to hear!

Most people have no idea what their ears are missing; I was one of them. I look back at that stage of listening to pop with incredulousness- I cannot believe that was me, it's like classical has helped me to me.

[Peter]

Indeed it is- but have hope Peter- when I go to concerts there are not many empty seats! Also, I am now getting to the stage when I try to introduce people to classical when I can..well if anyone visits me that's what they are going to hear!

Most people have no idea what their ears are missing; I was one of them. I look back at that stage of listening to pop with incredulousness- I cannot believe that was me, it's like classical has helped me to me.

Yes of course - I think your own story very hopeful and I'm not one who truly believes classical music is 'dying' but it is an uphill struggle to engage the young when competing with modern culture. Education and a change in attitudes at the very top are needed. I find it astonishing for example that a musician of the calibre of Julian Bream has not been recognised by the political establishment - this is a disgrace, but sadly symptomatic of the problems we're discussing.

[AeolianHarp]

Well the mainstream is about dumbing down!

[Peter]

Well the mainstream is about dumbing down!

Absolutely and a whole generation are missing out, but we also live in an age of denial.

[Harvey]

My son has been searching for some Beethoven live performances here in the Detroit area, including Ann Arbor, Michigan, and is finding nothing. This is very sad.

[AeolianHarp]

My son has been searching for some Beethoven live performances here in the Detroit area, including Ann Arbor, Michigan, and is finding nothing. This is very sad.

It is indeed Harvey...but you know some universities put on student concerts, so maybe he might have some luck there. I'm lucky in that we have a concert hall in my home town, and I have been to some Beethoven performances there over the past 2 years. One sunday they had a whole concert just for his music, and a talk on his music beforehand.

[Rocco]

It is indeed Harvey...but you know some universities put on student concerts, so maybe he might have some luck there. I'm lucky in that we have a concert hall in my home town, and I have been to some Beethoven performances there over the past 2 years. One sunday they had a whole concert just for his music, and a talk on his music beforehand.

I will have to check out all the nearby universities. I really want to see Beethoven's 9th live!