Beethoven in Vienna today

[Albert Gans]

I am in Vienna at the moment, but have been here before. Besides the big haunts for music lovers like the Musikhaus and Mozart Museum, Haydnhaus, I have been in a number of Beethoven places, of course:
Zentralfriedhof
Pasqualatihaus
Heiligenstadt.

Anything I still need to see, to complete my Beethoven pilgrimage? I a might have time to go to Baden this time or Gneixendorf....

[Peter]

How about a meal or drink at the inn Beethoven had lived in from Oct 1819 to 1820 'Zum Alten Blumenstock' - situated in the Ballgasse a small lane not far from the cathedral. The place was quite empty when I was there and strangely for Vienna there was no commemorative plaque to mark the illustrious former lodger - the only reference being on the back of the menu! We sat outside and from my seat looking up the street I could see the site of the house Mozart had died in.

Also interesting is the original grave site at Wahring but you were in that area when you visited the Haydn house I think.

[Albert Gans]

OK, I might go and check the pub out tomorrow.
I've tried to get into the little graveyard on Währinger Strasse in 2008, but if I remember well, one had to arrange this with someone from the city to get hold of the key. It is not really near the Haydn house.

[Peter]

OK, I might go and check the pub out tomorrow.
I've tried to get into the little graveyard on Währinger Strasse in 2008, but if I remember well, one had to arrange this with someone from the city to get hold of the key. It is not really near the Haydn house.

If you don't go through the main entrance there is a side entrance further up and we managed to enter the Schubert park there with no problems, but that was in 2003.

[Hollywood]

Here at least are two sites where you can check out a current photo of Beethoven and Schubert's original tombstones at the Währing Cemetery:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...Grabstein.jpg#


http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei...-Grabstein.jpg

[Michael]

If you haven't seen it already, the Theatre an der Wien is worth having a look at, although when I was there a couple of years ago, we were not allowed inside. Opposite is the Hotel Beethoven with a bust in the foyer to prove it.
It's quite difficult to picture the Theatre as it was in Beethoven's time - outside the city, on the bank of a river!

[gprengel]

Anything I still need to see, to complete my Beethoven pilgrimage? I a might have time to go to Baden this time or Gneixendorf....

My favourite place in and around Vienna was Baden, in the "house of the Ninth", see http://gerdprengel.de/beethoven-in-vienna.html. This is a very beautiful village and very special to me ...

Gerd

[Albert Gans]

Dear Beethoven friends,

I went to the Theater an der Wien in 2008 for the redo of the 22/12/1808 Akademie. It was a great experience. Today I went to the Pasqualatihaus again and frankly speaking was really angry by the time I left. Vienna is hopeless with regard to Beethoven. There is no structure, no real clear explanation of anything whatsoever, unless one is a scholar or a Beethoven nut, like myself, one just cannot make head or tails of what the places are about. Fragmentation, incompetence and just a sheer lack of any respect. It really angers me to see Beethoven, who is one of the most famous people on earth, to be dealt with in this way in the city he lived.
Anyway, the visit to the Pasqualatihaus was a disappointment yet again. Later in the day, I went to Eisenstadt, visited the Esterhazy Palace and the Haydn-Haus, which had an exposition on the relationship between Beethoven and Papa Haydn. Very nicely done, although a bit small. At least, I got something from that.
Yesterday, I was in Baden and visit the 'Haus der Neunte'. It was fairly interesting, but again, a lot was assumed to be known, which I don't think is the case for the average non-Beethoven (pretending) expert.

[Peter]

Dear Beethoven friends,

I went to the Theater an der Wien in 2008 for the redo of the 22/12/1808 Akademie. It was a great experience. Today I went to the Pasqualatihaus again and frankly speaking was really angry by the time I left. Vienna is hopeless with regard to Beethoven. There is no structure, no real clear explanation of anything whatsoever, unless one is a scholar or a Beethoven nut, like myself, one just cannot make head or tails of what the places are about. Fragmentation, incompetence and just a sheer lack of any respect. It really angers me to see Beethoven, who is one of the most famous people on earth, to be dealt with in this way in the city he lived.
Anyway, the visit to the Pasqualatihaus was a disappointment yet again. Later in the day, I went to Eisenstadt, visited the Esterhazy Palace and the Haydn-Haus, which had an exposition on the relationship between Beethoven and Papa Haydn. Very nicely done, although a bit small. At least, I got something from that.
Yesterday, I was in Baden and visit the 'Haus der Neunte'. It was fairly interesting, but again, a lot was assumed to be known, which I don't think is the case for the average non-Beethoven (pretending) expert.

Sorry you had such a negative experience at the museums but at least the concert was good! I went to what I think was the first reconstruction of the 1808 concert in August 2003 - it seems to be becoming a fixture! Have you been to Gniexendorf?

[Albert Gans]

Will have to keep Gneixendorf for the next visit. Is there anything in Bratislava, where I now am, I should see?

[Michael]

Dear Beethoven friends,

I went to the Theater an der Wien in 2008 for the redo of the 22/12/1808 Akademie. It was a great experience. Today I went to the Pasqualatihaus again and frankly speaking was really angry by the time I left. Vienna is hopeless with regard to Beethoven. There is no structure, no real clear explanation of anything whatsoever, unless one is a scholar or a Beethoven nut, like myself, one just cannot make head or tails of what the places are about. Fragmentation, incompetence and just a sheer lack of any respect. It really angers me to see Beethoven, who is one of the most famous people on earth, to be dealt with in this way in the city he lived.
.

I am afraid that I found things exactly the same as you describe. I admit I was only there for three days but I found a distinct lack of interest in Beethoven. I politely asked one of the costumed concert-ticket sellers if there were any Beethoven works being performed and the answer I got was: "But Beethoven was a German!"
I couldn't believe my ears. I rather heatedly pointed out that he lived over 30 years in Vienna and was buried there, but the gentleman in question persisted in trying to sell me tickets to a Mozart/Strauss event.
(There was nothing wrong with that, but I didn't go to Bonn and Vienna just to hear the Blue Danube.)

[Albert Gans]

Dear Michael,

I am not going to leave it there this time. I may start some sort of campaign to give Beethoven more prominence in Europe. I am thinking of a long term project, aiming towards the 200th anniversary of his death.... I know that is still a while off. But I think that if we want to get the Viennese to move, this may about the right time frame.
Even if I don't mind the Blue Danube, I would never travel anywhere to go and see/hear it.
Beethoven wasn't a German, he was/is universal. As is the musical language more generally. People saying such stupid things should reconsider their career.

[Albert Gans]

A guide in the Musikverein told me once that Mahler had said, even in his day, that anything that happens in the rest of the world today, comes a century later in Vienna. Anyone know where that supposed quote comes from? In any case, if true, he was ahead of his time in more than one way.

[Michael]

Dear Michael,

Beethoven wasn't a German, he was/is universal. As is the musical language more generally. People saying such stupid things should reconsider their career.

Well, as I said, I wasn't in Vienna long enough to get a real idea of the place and maybe I was unlucky in the people I met. I also went to Heiligenstadt and asked somebody where the BeethovenGang was. The person I asked was standing in a doorway of the house and she spoke English but could not tell me where the famous walk was (and the name Beethoven didn't seem to ring a bell!) I found the Beethoven walk a hundred yards from her house!

Maybe I picked a bad week!

[AeolianHarp]

How about a meal or drink at the inn Beethoven had lived in from Oct 1819 to 1820 'Zum Alten Blumenstock' - situated in the Ballgasse a small lane not far from the cathedral. The place was quite empty when I was there and strangely for Vienna there was no commemorative plaque to mark the illustrious former lodger - the only reference being on the back of the menu! We sat outside and from my seat looking up the street I could see the site of the house Mozart had died in.

Wow, I thought all those inns had gone now, the Swan inn is. Really they ought to highlight that Beethoven used to go there and at least have his picture up on the wall! I bet it is all modern in there now and original features all ripped out..