How did Beethoven feel about his father?

[thesunlover]

Beethoven was very proud of his grandfather, and loved his mother deeply. Then how about his own father? He didn't go back Bonn when his father passed away in Dec. 1792. I understand he just got Vienna in Nov. (?). It's not easy to make a long trip at that time.

Did Beethoven leave any words regarding his father?

[Peter]

I think he must have had a difficult relationship with his father and was not close to him.

[thesunlover]

When and to whom Beethoven said these words about his mother?

"She was such a good loving mother, my best friend; Oh, who was happier than
I when I could still say the name 'mother' and it was heard, and whom can
I say it to now."　Ludwig Bethhoven

[thesunlover]

TO DR. SCHADE,--AUGSBURG.
Bonn, 1787. Autumn.

MY MOST ESTEEMED FRIEND,--

I can easily imagine what you must think of me, and I cannot deny that you have too good grounds for an unfavorable opinion. I shall not, however, attempt to justify myself, until I have explained to you the reasons why my apologies should be accepted. I must tell you that from the time I left Augsburg[1] my cheerfulness, as well as my health, began to decline; the nearer I came to my native city, the more frequent were the letters from my father, urging me to travel with all possible speed, as my mother's health was in a most precarious condition. I therefore hurried forwards as fast as I could, although myself far from well. My longing once more to see my dying mother overcame every obstacle, and assisted me in surmounting the greatest difficulties. I found my mother indeed still alive, but in the most deplorable state; her disease was consumption, and about seven weeks ago, after much pain and suffering, she died [July 17]. She was indeed a kind, loving mother to me, and my best friend. Ah! who was happier than I, when I could still utter the sweet name of mother, and it was heard? But to whom can I now say it? Only to the silent form resembling her, evoked by the power of imagination. I have passed very few pleasant hours since my arrival here, having during the whole time been suffering from asthma, which may, I fear, eventually turn to consumption; to this is added melancholy,--almost as great an evil as my malady itself. Imagine yourself in my place, and then I shall hope to receive your forgiveness for my long silence. You showed me extreme kindness and friendship by lending me three Carolins in Augsburg, but I must entreat your indulgence for a time. My journey cost me a great deal, and I have not the smallest hopes of earning anything here. Fate is not propitious to me in Bonn. Pardon my intruding on you so long with my affairs, but all that I have said was necessary for my own justification.

I do entreat you not to deprive me of your valuable friendship; nothing do I wish so much as in any degree to become worthy of your regard. I am, with all esteem, your obedient servant and friend,

L. V. BEETHOVEN,
Cologne Court Organist.

[Quijote]

I don't know, Sunlover. How would you feel about your Dad if he was an alcoholic?
It all makes me feel very sad to think that Beethoven made it back to Bonn from Vienna for his Ma's funeral but it seems not so for his father's. Is that the case, by the way?

[thesunlover]

Right after he left Bonn for Vienna in 1787, his mom was in critical condition. He then returned Bonn.

Right after he left Bonn for Vienna in 1792, his father was dying. This time he didn't return Bonn. Johann passed away about one month after Ludwig left home.

[thesunlover]

Where, from whom, did people get the story that Beethoven's father beat him severely when giving him music training? Is it true??? From Fischer Manuscripts?

[Peter]

Where, from whom, did people get the story that Beethoven's father beat him severely when giving him music training? Is it true??? From Fischer Manuscripts?

Most of the information about Beethoven's youth comes from the Fischer manuscript which says that Beethoven was 'not brought up with gentleness' and that his father threatened to 'box his ears' on one occasion. We know of course that his father also drank heavily so it is probably true that beatings were inflicted on the children - of course it was also considered at that time a necessary part of discipline and would not have been thought cruel.

[thesunlover]

It sounds very bad. However, based on my personal experiences (1) drinking does not necessarily results in domestic abuse or family violence. My uncle drank almost everyday but never beat his little sons. He was a gentleman I can even say. (2) Poor manners and behaviors don't necessarily mean family violence either. My father punished me a lot with bad manner, by his big mouth instead of his hands.

I think we still lack of sufficient evidences that Beethoven's father did beat him often and hard - as music lovers all know as a fact.

[Albert Gans]

Beethoven and his dad

From what I have read in the biographies of Beethoven so far, there is a good indication that the least one could say is that it was fraught with problems. The drinking has been mentioned; what about treating his kid as a 'Wunderkind'? And references to beatings come back in nearly all biographies. He clearly did not have a comfortable home... and that may be more than just the space: he spent a lot of time with the von Breunings, as is mentioned time and again; indeed, he made life long friendships there.
It is difficult to read into the reasons why Beethoven did not return for the funeral of his father. But I have heard relatively little so far that would indicate that the feelings he had for his father were very fond. Contrarily to his mother, little is to be found of that kind in the literature. One should also not forget that he then shouldered some of the responsibilities for his brothers. A very honourable thing to do, but certainly also a burden his father left him with.
As said, it is impossible to read into LvB's mind, and travel never was easy in those days. Even today, it still is near to a 1000 km....
Finally, when his father died, he already was a number of years older than when his mother died. The age difference and the fact that he probably knew by then he was in Vienna to stay may also have influenced his choice not to return.

[Peter]

It sounds very bad. However, based on my personal experiences (1) drinking does not necessarily results in domestic abuse or family violence. My uncle drank almost everyday but never beat his little sons. He was a gentleman I can even say. (2) Poor manners and behaviors don't necessarily mean family violence either. My father punished me a lot with bad manner, by his big mouth instead of his hands.

I think we still lack of sufficient evidences that Beethoven's father did beat him often and hard - as music lovers all know as a fact.

Absolutely, but I think in the context of the the time and given the strong anecdotal hints, it is likely - Beethoven himself resorted on occasion to beating his nephew.

[thesunlover]

Another widely accepted misunderstanding about our great composer is that child Beethoven was living in poverty. Actually he was not. He was born and grew up in a typical middle class family. Even in 1785 when his father’s alcoholic issue was getting worse, they moved to a very good house at 462 Wenzelgasse – Apparently they had no problem to pay the rent.

There are so many myths about Beethoven. That’s why I am interested in seeing some first-hand evidences to confirm that his father did abuse him. All we have now are still anecdotal hints. I understand such evidences may never be found, so people have to continue living in myths, probably forever.

[Peter]

Another widely accepted misunderstanding about our great composer is that child Beethoven was living in poverty. Actually he was not. He was born and grew up in a typical middle class family. Even in 1785 when his father’s alcoholic issue was getting worse, they moved to a very good house at 462 Wenzelgasse – Apparently they had no problem to pay the rent.

There are so many myths about Beethoven. That’s why I am interested in seeing some first-hand evidences to confirm that his father did abuse him. All we have now are still anecdotal hints. I understand such evidences may never be found, so people have to continue living in myths, probably forever.

I don't think 'abuse' is the right word - it would simply have been considered normal punishment to beat a child for doing wrong - although abhorrent to us, we have to consider the context and not apply our modern values retrospectively. It would only have been thought abuse if it was excessive and out of proportion, possibly drink induced, but as you say we have no real hard evidence for this.

[AeolianHarp]

I agree, even in the 1970s when I grew up, children were punished by being smacked and it wasn't considered wrong. My brothers and I got smacked when we were messing about !
I don't think Johann von Beethoven was an especially physically abusive man- I read that he was a happy sort of drunk and didn't beat Maria. Any "beatings" of Beethoven and his brothers were likley to have been what were deeemed as punishments for misdemeanours.
Johann's biggest fault was being too drunk to manage his life and work as I see it. Doesn't make him a wicked man.