Standard editions

[Serge]

Following the op.2/3 thread, I am reminded of the impression that Beethoven at least at one point wanted to make a complete, authorized edition of his catalogue. Because he had to deal with unscrupulous publishers and they had to deal with his messily-written MS's, did Beethoven ever succeed in making an authorized edition?

Also: this renewed talk about Beethoven-suitable pianos makes me wonder (since I now fairly little about piano evolution) if the Grafs and Walters and Streichers all died out at the same time that Bosendorfers and Erards and Steinways (or whatever) were being introduced. Did performing artists like Liszt and Dvorak and Schumann have to use post-Beethoven pianos because they had no choice, or did they choose those pianos because they believed they sounded better, or did they stick with the "original" pianos? I don't know either way, but I imagine that if, say, Liszt, who maintained Beethoven's work in the performing repertory, played on a Bosendorfer, then we can safely say that using more modern pianos was at least suitable enough for Beethoven's admirers.

[~Immortal Beloved~]

I don't know about that...this one is kind of tricky. I'm thinking they would maybe stick with the old pianos. I know Chris and peter knows about this topic.

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freedom for all- Ludwig Van Beethoven

[Peter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Serge:
Following the op.2/3 thread, I am reminded of the impression that Beethoven at least at one point wanted to make a complete, authorized edition of his catalogue. Because he had to deal with unscrupulous publishers and they had to deal with his messily-written MS's, did Beethoven ever succeed in making an authorized edition?

As far as I am aware the first critical complete edition of Beethoven's works was published posthumously by Breitkopf & Hartel, Leipzig 1864-7.


Also: this renewed talk about Beethoven-suitable pianos makes me wonder (since I now fairly little about piano evolution) if the Grafs and Walters and Streichers all died out at the same time that Bosendorfers and Erards and Steinways (or whatever) were being introduced. Did performing artists like Liszt and Dvorak and Schumann have to use post-Beethoven pianos because they had no choice, or did they choose those pianos because they believed they sounded better, or did they stick with the "original" pianos? I don't know either way, but I imagine that if, say, Liszt, who maintained Beethoven's work in the performing repertory, played on a Bosendorfer, then we can safely say that using more modern pianos was at least suitable enough for Beethoven's admirers.

Many of the firms familiar to Beethoven, Broadwood, Graf, Erard continued to produce pianos throughout the 19th century and still produce pianos today - In 1978 The name of Erard was taken over by Schimmel of Germany. Babcock first patented the iron frame in 1825 and it was not met with universal approval as there were unpleasant metallic sound effects - these problems were resolved finally by Steinway and the turning point came in 1859 when Steinway patented overstringing and won many awards around the world for best grand piano. From then on the wooden frame was redundant. Schumann (who wasn't much of a pianist anyway) and Chopin were not around to see these changes, but Liszt certainly endorsed the iron frame pianos - Bechstein was his preferred make. Quite what his attitude to performing Beethoven on an 1880's Bechstein was I don't know!

One final irony - Steinway Musical Instruments, went public in August 1996 and is now trading as LVB (Ludwig Van Beethoven) on the New York stock exchange!

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'Man know thyself'



[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 11-13-2001).]

[Chris]

They seem to be on the up, for the moment too!

[~Immortal Beloved~]

[quote]Originally posted by Peter:

One final irony - Steinway Musical Instruments, went public in August 1996 and is now trading as LVB (Ludwig Van Beethoven) on the New York stock exchange!

wow That's cool! Beethoven's name is at the New york stock exchange! I didn't know about that. That's cool!


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freedom for all- Ludwig Van Beethoven

[Rod]

Originally posted by Serge:

Also: this renewed talk about Beethoven-suitable pianos makes me wonder (since I now fairly little about piano evolution) if the Grafs and Walters and Streichers all died out at the same time that Bosendorfers and Erards and Steinways (or whatever) were being introduced. Did performing artists like Liszt and Dvorak and Schumann have to use post-Beethoven pianos because they had no choice, or did they choose those pianos because they believed they sounded better, or did they stick with the "original" pianos? I don't know either way, but I imagine that if, say, Liszt, who maintained Beethoven's work in the performing repertory, played on a Bosendorfer, then we can safely say that using more modern pianos was at least suitable enough for Beethoven's admirers.

Many of the old big Viennese names did not 'die out', they were taken over and absorbed by other companies. Liszt played Grafs that's for sure. Bosendorfer and Streicher made Viennese actioned pianos at least until the 1860's. Certainly this seems to be the case from the pictures I have seen of the pianos of this time. Streicher made only a handful of English school models, one of which (1854) heard 'live', I can tell you it sounded a different world away from todays pianos. The action was super heavy, but the sound was very colourful indeed, being more a product of the hammers and stringing. If Beethoven had lived in Vienna another 30 years and by some miracle started playing the piano again over this time period, he would have only played Viennese school models, this is for sure. No-one in his/her right mind could say any modern piano was ideal for the music of the time of Beethoven.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin




[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 11-14-2001).]

[Serge]

Does anyone have the new Beethoven symphony cycle on DG by Claudio Abbado and the BPO? It's almost "authentic-sounding" (an effect achieved by trimming the orchestra in a few places), and it's based on Jonathan Del Mar's editions. I know that Abbado has spent years going over the symphonies using Del Mar, but is Del Mar's the best edition, or is there someone's even better? In fact, how many total editions are there, anyway?