A question about Beethoven's Choral Fantasy, Op.80

[thesunlover]

Why Beethoven dedicated his Choral Fantasy, Op.80 to King Maximilian Joseph of Bavaria? Any specific reasons?

Thanks.

[Peter]

This was done by the publishers and Beethoven was far from pleased about it as his letters to Breitkopf & Hartel reveal (9th Oct 1811).

[thesunlover]

Really? Let me go to find the letter and post it here.

Thanks, Peter.

[Megan]

From Beethoven's Letters, by Dr. AC Kalischer.





It is there, halfway down page 123.
You may have to zoom in, sorry I couldn't get it closer.

[thesunlover]

Megan, Thanks a lot for posting the book pages. Sorry I can't find the contents I am interested in in the page. I can just recognize some sentences. Would you please write down those sentences regarding Op80? Thank you in advance.

I've searched Beethoven letters online, but haven't found what B wrote about Op80.

[Megan]

Megan, Thanks a lot for posting the book pages. Sorry I can't find the contents I am interested in in the page. I can just recognize some sentences. Would you please write down those sentences regarding Op80? Thank you in advance.

I've searched Beethoven letters online, but haven't found what B wrote about Op80.

No problem, I was thinking along those lines typing the whole letter out as I was unable to get a clear shot of the page.

[Megan]

From Beethoven's Letters, by Dr. AC Kalischer.


Letter 121. Pages 122-124.


To BREITKOPF AND HAERTEL, Leipzig.
Vienna, the 9th Oct, 1811.


A thousand excuses and a thousand thanks from here for your pleasant invitation to Leipzig, I am very sorry that I cannot follow my own inclination and to there to the places round about, just now there has been such a lot to do. The Hungarian Diet is sitting; there is already a talk of making the Archduke Primate of Hungary, and of his resigning the Bishopric at Olmutz. I have proposed to H.I.H., who as Primate of Hungary will have an income of not less than three million, to squander away a million on me every year (of course you understand the good musical spirits which by means I shall set in motion). In Teplitz I received no further news, because they knew nothing of my plan to go further; I think also for the journey which I have in view, considering my attachment, that I shall have unwillingly to yield to him, and all the more as I shall be wanted at the festivities. So after having selected the pro, I am off to Vienna, and the first thunder-word which I hear is that our gracious lord has entirely given up being, or acting as a priest; and so nothing will come of the whole matter.
It is said he is to become a general, a thing, as you know, easy to understand, and I quartermaster-general in the battle, which, however, I am determined not to lose--what do you say to that?
Another event was caused by the Hungarians, for as I was stepping into my carriage to go to Teplitz, I received a parcel from Budapesth with the request to write something for the opening of the new theatre. After I had spent three weeks in Teplitz, and was pretty well, I set to work, in spite of the order of my doctor, to help these mustachioed men, who are well inclined towards me. I send my parcel there, on the 13th of September, thinking that the opening would be between the 1st and 8th of October; meanwhile the whole affair is put off for a whole month; and the letter in which this was announced to me, I only received here through some misunderstanding; and yet this theatre matter also decided me to go back to Vienna. -Meanwhile, what is postponed is not lost. I have enjoyed the journey, and it has done me good; now I should like to be off from here again - I have just received Das Lebewohl etc., I see that you really have other copies with French title. But why? Lebewohl is something very different from Les Adieux; the first is said in hearty manner to a single person, the other is to a whole assembly, to whole towns. As you will allow me to be received in no shameful a manner, you must also suffer for it; besides, you should have used fewer plates, and the difficult turning over would thereby have been made easier; enough upon this subject - How in heaven's name did my Fantasia with orchestra come to be dedicated to the King of Bavaria?? give me an answer about this at once; if thereby you wish me an honourable gift, I will thank you for it, otherwise it does not please me. Did you perhaps draw up this dedication yourself, what is the meaning of it? One cannot dedicate anything to kings with impunity - then the Lebewohl was not dedicated to the Archduke, why were not the year, the day and datum, as I wrote them, printed? In future please keep the title unchanged as I have sent them. You may have the oratorio, and indeed everything reviewed by whom you like. It annoys me to have written a word to you about the wretched review.
Who troubles about such critics when one sees how the most wretched scribblers are praised up by such critics, and how they speak in the harshest way of works of art, and are indeed forced to do so, because they have not, as the cobbler has his last, the proper standard. If there is anything to notice about my oratorio, it is that it was my first and early work of the kind; it was written in fourteen days amidst all possible tumult and other unpleasant, anxious events (my brother was dying). If I mistake not, Rochlitz, already before it was given to you to print, spoke not favourably about the chorus of the disciples, ''Wir haben ihn gesehen''; he called it comic, a feeling which at any rate was not experienced by any one of the public here, and among my friends there are also critics. That I should now write quite a different kind of oratorio is certain. And now criticise as long as you like, I wish you much pleasure; it may give one a little prick like the sting of a gnat, and then becomes quite a nice little joke. Not for ever; that you cannot do. And so good-bye. In the oratorio there was a passage in which the horn ought to have been written in the printed copy on two staves, namely, the second horn has the bass clef, but the first the treble; your proof-reader will easily find the place. Every man must have more than one key, even if hey opens nothing. I will send you a letter addressed to Kotzebue, and beg that you will see that it is sent to his address. Also, somebody will send his own letters to you from Berlin. I wish to save him the postage, to be kind enough to send them on to me. You won't think badly of me; with regard to postage, each time you give me notice, I will repay at once. Now Heaven preserve you; I hope to see you and have a talk; you see by that my firm intention to travel - all kind messages to the Saxon, especially to the Leipzig amateurs for their good feeling towards me, of which I have heard much; also many thanks to the artists of whose zeal for me I have also heard.


Yours
LUDWIG VAN BEETHOVEN



.

[thesunlover]

Megan,

Thanks a lot for your hard work and generous help!!

I will use the contents in my essay discussing Beethoven's political stand.

[Albert Gans]

Opus 80; 22 December

I often wonder why so many people seem to consider this one of LvB's lesser works. It is a really stunning piece, considering when it was written and how fast he composed it.

I had the privilege to be in Vienna on 22 December 2008 to see the 'replay' of the famous Akademie, in the same spot; the Theater an der Wien. Part of my Beethoven pilgrimage to Vienna and surroundings (Heiligenstadt, of course). Living in Antwerp, Belgium, I first went to Bonn on his birthday. A great Beethoven week, indeed...

Albert

[Peter]

I often wonder why so many people seem to consider this one of LvB's lesser works. It is a really stunning piece, considering when it was written and how fast he composed it.

I had the privilege to be in Vienna on 22 December 2008 to see the 'replay' of the famous Akademie, in the same spot; the Theater an der Wien. Part of my Beethoven pilgrimage to Vienna and surroundings (Heiligenstadt, of course). Living in Antwerp, Belgium, I first went to Bonn on his birthday. A great Beethoven week, indeed...

Albert

Welcome to the forum Albert - five years earlier during the very hot summer in August 2003 I was present when they did this replay of the famous concert at the Theater an der Wien - amazing experience! I agree Op.80 is a very interesting piece but I think it's unusual combinations actually work against it from the performers point of view and this probably explains the lack of popularity.

[Albert Gans]

More on Op. 80

Although not a performer myself (other than trying to get a decent sound out of an oboe for the last 8 years), I do understand that its quite mixed composition (chorus, piano solo and orchestra) is unusual and not entirely balanced.

Still, even some of my closest Beethoven friends seem somewhat taken aback by my enthousiasm for this piece. I encounter similar 'arguments' with the Triple Concerto, which also often is discarded somehow. Maybe because that one really is squeezed between two giant neighbours...

Oh, well, it gives some of us the opportunity to enjoy those so-called 'lesser works' all the more.

Albert

[thesunlover]

Op80 is a unique piece. I enjoy it a lot, as well as the Triple Concerto

They are both somewhat undervalued

[AeolianHarp]

Peter and Albert I agree- I love the Choral Fantasy- I had not heard it until a few days ago when it came on the Beethoven radio station. I was not expecting the voices- as I was online toodling about and did not hear what the music was called until the end. And the beginning- wow- it is of a romantic, sweeping style. This works is an absolute masterpiece for all the different elements and feelings in it!

In case you all don't know about it- here's Beethoven on the radio!

http://streamdb2web.securenetsystems.net/v5/BEETIR

[Albert Gans]

I always have loved this quote of Beethoven. I use it regularly.

[AeolianHarp]

I always have loved this quote of Beethoven. I use it regularly.

The one in my sig Albert?

I like it too, especially as it happens to be 100% true!

I also like the one about soup.