The 4th "Rejection" in B's 9th???

[euphony131]

In Symphony #9: We all know how Beethoven brings back themes from the first three movements in the fourth movement only to reject them with "angry recitatives."

As Michael Steinberg puts it in his book, The Symphony: A Listener's Guide:

"Finally, after three tries and three rejections, the woodwinds offer something apparently new and different. It is the mere adumbration of a theme, but even so, those hectoring cellos and basses change their tone: with some emphatic cheering along by winds and drums, they lose no time in expressing their enthusiasm."

And thereafter the famed Ode to Joy themes begins.

But my question is about the "adumbration of a theme" that comes prior. I get that it's a quasi-Ode to Joy. But what I don't get is this idea that the "hectoring cellos and basses" are now enthusiastic and welcoming. To my ears --the rejecting music or "angry recitative" is played practically the same, only more frenzied and angry if anything.

So is this indeed a fourth rejection? Or is it truly an abrupt change in tone? If so, what is I'm not hearing?

Thanks all!

PS -- I bet Peter will know.

[Peter]

I agree with you - I don't hear it as a rejection, but an interruption saying 'yes yes that's what we want!!'

[euphony131]

I agree with you - I don't hear it as a rejection, but an interruption saying 'yes yes that's what we want!!'

Actually, I meant the opposite. I hear it as a Rejection. It's essentially the same angry recitative, only now with winds and drums. What's different?

Yes, it's supposed to an affirmation. But again, I don't hear that.

This has alluded me forever.

If I could crack this I can die happy.

PS -- Ah, but there's also Opus 135...that's for later.