First Trip to Vienna: Who with him; how did they travel?

[Lindegard]

Hello, I read in an article by Ian Woodfield in "Music and Letters" August 2012 (Oxford Journals) that Beethoven may have been accompanied by some members of the Willmann family on part of his first trip to Vienna in 1787.

Does anyone know of other accounts of individuals who may have accompanied Beethoven en route or on the way back? Or did the 16-year-old (who possibly thought he was 14 or 15) make this major, unfamiliar journey alone?

Also, was the journey by coach, partly by river, or some other means? Thank you so much! :-) Lindegard

[Peter]

The journey was by stage coach - I'm not sure what evidence there is for travelling with anyone! We also know the trip was very expensive, especially on the return as Beethoven was taking the fastest route to see his ailing mother. What amazes me is the speed the post travelled as a letter from Beethoven's father generally awaited him at his stop off points such as Munich.

[Fidelio]

There is no doubt that Willmann and Beethoven families knew each other well in Bonn. Certain observations made by KM Pisarowitz in his articles on the Willmanns in Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart and New Grove merit closer consideration. In both articles he suggests that Willmann while in Vienna in 1786-7, probably initiated Beethoven’s trip to study with Mozart. It is true that Willmann was in Vienna during the period preceding Beethoven’s arrival, as his children participated in a concert of 7 March.

[Lindegard]

Very interesting, thank you, Fidelio! Have you read Dieter Haberl's study on the record book of Regensburg, which could suggest that Beethoven actually went to Vienna somewhat earlier in 1787, perhaps in January? I wasn't sure how widely that information had circulated, or whether it was withstanding scholarly scrutiny. (believe Haberl published in 2006; I read about it in Woodfield 8/2012). I know the prevailing thought is that Beethoven arrived in Vienna in late March or early April. Hope to do some more investigating, will report back with any additional findings. (Writing a novel on Beethoven's early years.) Lindegard

[Lindegard]

Thank you, Peter! That surprises me, but I recall seeing somewhere a list of receipts collected from Beethoven's journey (perhaps it was only a ledger page), but darn if I can find it anywhere now that I need it! LOL

For dramatic purposes in my work of fiction, I had him sailing to Frankfurt, then switching to coach, but I may change that. Of course, if sailing south, he would be going against the northbound current of the Rhine, and I am sure he would not have wanted to be afloat on the Rhine in winter again after his hapless experience sailing with mom to Rotterdam a few years earlier! :-) ( I sailed south on the Rhine from Bonn to Linz just three weeks ago, and oh what a difference modern technology--and Springtime--makes! :-)

Fascinating information! Any sources other than the common ones (Thayer, Cooper, Solomon, various friends, acquaintances, and their relatives) would be greatly appreciated. Lindegard

[Fidelio]

To travel from Bonn to Vienna was a costly affair. Wegeler wrote to Schindler in 1839 stating that it was Count Waldstein who supplied the travel funds (Marek, p73).

However Waldstein did not arrive in Bonn until Feb 1788. Waldstein biographer, Josef Heer speculates that Beethoven may have gone to Prague in early 1787 to meet Mozart prior to travelling to Vienna and could have made Waldstein’s acquaintance on that occasion. Although there is no evidence to support this.

We find that on 1st April 1787 a Herr Peehofen musikus von Bonn bei Kölln had arrived in the city of Munich (from the midweek report of visitors in the Műnchener Zietung). A full account of the journey is in Marek & Thayer (p 87).

On his return visit, he stopped at Augsburg where he meet Dr Joseph Wilhelm von Schaden and his pianist wife Nanette. Beethoven borrowed money from them and did not write to them until 15 September 1787 (Anderson 1).

Gerhard von Breuning makes a brief note of the first Vienna trip (p31-33).

Also John Suchet, Beethoven pp. 37-40.

Regarding other sources, I suspect you have contacted the Beethoven-Haus and examine all the Beethoven’s Newsletters from ABS.

[Fidelio]

In her book, (Beethoven and the age of revolution) Frida Knight suggests that Beethoven travelled alone, citing an entry on 1st April 1787 in the Munich newspaper Tagezeitiung.

[Lindegard]

Got copies of the Regensburg notes today

Thank you so much! Yes, all this information is familiar, but still greatly appreciated. I am an ABS member, and greatly enjoy and appreciate that organization's dedication to the master as well as its abundant resources.

Today, at Princeton University's Mendel Music Library, I was able to scan the pages in "Musiker auf Reisen: Beiträge zum Kulturtransfer im 18. und 19. Jahrhundert" which deal with evidence of the 1787 trip. Included in the article by Dieter Haberl are listings from the Regensburgische Diarium from January 1787 that provide evidence that a Herr Beethoven (identified as a Bonn organist) passed through that town (probably enroute to Vienna) that January. Have to study those more (they are in Fraktur), but very interesting, though as I may have said, I think I'll stick to the traditional facts for a work of fiction. :-) Again, thank you for your insights and assistance! Lindegard