What are you listening to now?

[Sorrano]

This morning:

Haydn: Symphony No. 80

[Enrique]

Beethoven:
Third symphony, 3rd movement.

How wonderful the transition from the violas to the bass string in this passage, that repeats itself after the trio:



And the crescendo in the coda, with the timpani striking tonic and dominant as if the time were 2/4, in a 3/4 context, beginning pp and ending ff. I wonder if the indications "cresc" and pp, f, ff are Beethoven's. Composers from later generations wrote not only ppp and fff but pppp and ffff. Did the managed to build things like this?

[Peter]

Beethoven:
Third symphony, 3rd movement.

How wonderful the transition from the violas to the bass string in this passage, that repeats itself after the trio:


And the crescendo in the coda, with the timpani striking tonic and dominant as if the time were 2/4, in a 3/4 context, beginning pp and ending ff. I wonder if the indications "cresc" and pp, f, ff are Beethoven's. Composers from later generations wrote not only ppp and fff but pppp and ffff. Did the managed to build things like this?

Yes the dynamic markings are Beethoven's, he was very specific with this work, even providing metronome markings. Beethoven himself actually used the indication fff on only one occasion as far as I am aware, in the recap of the 1st movt symphony no.8.

[Peter]

Listening yesterday to Haydn's glorious symphony no.99 in Eb - one of my favourites of his late symphonies - just the slow movement alone is worth it!

[Enrique]

Yes the dynamic markings are Beethoven's, he was very specific with this work, even providing metronome markings. Beethoven himself actually used the indication fff on only one occasion as far as I am aware, in the recap of the 1st movt symphony no.8.

I could do no other thing than go imslp.org, the Petrucci library and see by myself. I chose what is there marked as the first edition (Steiner) and there it is (in couldn't be otherwise you having said it)! But the very next dynamics indication is pp. It's too great a dynamics variation: humm... couldn't be some copyist error?

By the way: imslp.org puts

Vienna: S.A. Steiner & Co., n.d.[1816]. Plate 2570.

What can "n.d." mean here? I do not find this abbreviation in any dictionary. And the fact that the year is between square brackets. Perhaps these things are explained somewhere in the site but I do not find them.

[Sorrano]

This morning:

Albeniz: Rapsodia Espanol

[Peter]

I could do no other thing than go imslp.org, the Petrucci library and see by myself. I chose what is there marked as the first edition (Steiner) and there it is (in couldn't be otherwise you having said it)! But the very next dynamics indication is pp. It's too great a dynamics variation: humm... couldn't be some copyist error?

By the way: imslp.org puts

What can "n.d." mean here? I do not find this abbreviation in any dictionary. And the fact that the year is between square brackets. Perhaps these things are explained somewhere in the site but I do not find them.

The next dynamic is actually p in the woodwinds then pp in the timpani. Beethoven was very good at spotting copyist errors so I don't think it would have remained had it not been his intention, especially as the metronome markings were added a year later in 1817. Incidentally this fff passage is often cited as one of Beethoven's orchestration miscalculations as the theme in the bass is all but drowned out!

[Enrique]

Yes, I remember reading he spent much time revising press proofs. But the theme in the bass, which can hardly be called theme, is doubled by the woodwinds and horns. How can it be drowned?

[Peter]

Yes, I remember reading he spent much time revising press proofs. But the theme in the bass, which can hardly be called theme, is doubled by the woodwinds and horns. How can it be drowned?

Are we talking about the same place? - I'm referring to bar 190 in the first movt of symphony 8 where the main theme is restated. He uses fff again later on at bar 349 which is what I think you are referring to.

[Enrique]

Ahhh... It is clear now! Yes, it's the first theme in basses and fagots. And the indication triple forte.

There is a passage in the 5th, 2nd movement. The first theme is heard in the violins, but the woodwinds, except oboes, play it with a delay of one measure, in a sort of imitation. But you have to pay attention to notice it.

[Sorrano]

This evening:

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 (Haitink - a very fine performance/recording!)

Stravinsky:
Concerto for 2 Solo Pianos
Piano-Rag Music

[Sorrano]

This morning;

Rimsky-Korsakov: Tale of Tsar Sartan Suite

[Megan]

The Gallant Weaver, James MacMillan

[Sorrano]

This morning:

Telamann: Tafelmusik, Bk 1: Overture in D

[Sorrano]

Last night:

Stravinsky:
The Nightingale
Mavra

This morning:
Wieniawski: Violin Concerto No. 2 in d