Appasionata

[scott]

To all the fans out there, how would yo describe the Appasionata (Sonata No.23) in your own words? how did it make you feel?

[chopithoven]

The sonata's name describes it perfectly, I think that there's nothing else to say about it, because if we hear it with attention we will understand on it the most emotive and passionated of Beethoven's sonatas. it also has a terrorific mood, perfect for a horror movie.

[Peter]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
. it also has a terrorific mood, perfect for a horror movie.

I don't agree! I don't find the music sinister or terrifying - it is as the title suggests passionate. Interesting point though as I'm trying to think of any Beethoven that is really sinister and suitable for a horror. I think Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique contains some of the first truly 'horror' music in Hollywood terms.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 10-11-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I don't agree! I don't find the music sinister or terrifying - it is as the title suggests passionate. Interesting point though as I'm trying to think of any Beethoven that is really sinister and suitable for a horror. I think Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique contains some of the first truly 'horror' music in Hollywood terms.

What is the nature of the passion you are talking about Peter?! I would say the music is electric, bubbling and stirring, but, though perhaps sinister is a little to extreme, the work is certainly designed to disconcert, though the ultimate and final impact remains positive, perhaps paradoxically, because of its overwheaming power of expression. I think perhaps the piano's you have heard may have been tuned to too high a pitch!!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
What is the nature of the passion you are talking about Peter?! I would say the music is electric, bubbling and stirring, but, though perhaps sinister is a little to extreme, the work is certainly designed to disconcert, though the ultimate and final impact remains positive, perhaps paradoxically, because of its overwheaming power of expression. I think perhaps the piano's you have heard may have been tuned to too high a pitch!!

I agree with everything you have said, bar the last sentence! The passion I mean is the drama and energy of the music which is presumably what the publisher who gave the work its title meant as well. To be horror music there would have to be a sinister element and I don't think there is in the Appassionata.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I agree with everything you have said, bar the last sentence! The passion I mean is the drama and energy of the music which is presumably what the publisher who gave the work its title meant as well. To be horror music there would have to be a sinister element and I don't think there is in the Appassionata.

I don't think in todays language it would have been called Appassionata, as today the thoughts one associates with passion are more amorous than anything else. I don't think you have really answered my question however - you say drama and energy, but what about the emotional perspective, which is more the issue? I used the word disconcerting (for the 1st and 3rd movements obviously, the 2nd being of course the relief that allows the disconcerting nature to continue without the whole effect becomming monotonous...like this sentence!). I have mentioned before that the piece ends in a (musically) negative manner, rare in Beethoven, though you did not agree if I recall correctly. So, what word(s) would you use to describe this emotional perspective?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 10-11-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rod:
So, what word(s) would you use to describe this emotional perspective?

On reflection, the fact that you agreed with my previous assessment means that you agree with my use of the word 'disconcerting', and thus you HAVE answered my question (?).

Usually I'm against such descriptive use of language to describe B's compositions. Music does not typically follow the same logic as language, but if we don't lead the questionner in the approximate right direction here, he may go elsewhere on the net and who knows what complete b*ll*cks he might be presented with.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
The sonata's name describes it perfectly.......it also has a terrorific mood, perfect for a horror movie.

Maybe gothic horror.

In a brilliant episode of US sitcom, Frasier, Niles played the opening of the sonata for a terrified Daphne on a stormy, windswept night inside his castle-like mansion, with candleabras
flickering atop the grand piano, suits of armour rattling, and Frasier banging at the door like a crazed Frankenstein's monster.

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
I have mentioned before that the piece ends in a (musically) negative manner, rare in Beethoven...

Please elaborate, Rod. It ends in minor, but as a sonata climax, I think only Op.110 equals it for breath-taking power and authoratative finality.

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
Maybe gothic horror.

In a brilliant episode of US sitcom, Frasier, Niles played the opening of the sonata for a terrified Daphne on a stormy, windswept night inside his castle-like mansion, with candleabras
flickering atop the grand piano, suits of armour rattling, and Frasier banging at the door like a crazed Frankenstein's monster.

Chopin uses a similar theme to the 1st mov of Op.57 in his D minor prelude and this features in the 1945 version of Dorian Gray - Dorian plays the piece himself and then it is played in some dark tavern by a rather sinister old man!

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'Man know thyself'

[Vipercat]

I would also not describe Appasionata as being "horrifying" at all. I agree more with the dramatic, passionate energy earlier mentioned. This sonata is also one of my favourites, but then again, how can one really have distinct favourites with Beethoven? :-) It is incredibly challenging technically, but even more so musically. To get the end of the first movement right is REALLY difficult (I refer to the ppp and the fact that the notes must all be EXACTLY played rhythmically).



[This message has been edited by Vipercat (edited 10-11-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
Please elaborate, Rod. It ends in minor, but as a sonata climax, I think only Op.110 equals it for breath-taking power and authoratative finality.

Interesting that you mention op110, for I too have mentioned this piece in the same context. However I used op110 as an example of a 'positive' climactic finish, where the music gives the impression of ascending, as compared to op57's 'negative' coda, where the music descends. The effect is powerful but deliberately unnerving in the minor key, the last two chords should be played sharp not sloppy like one often hears. Yet the effect produced is not a depressing one, B is playing with elemental forces here, and the sheer energy unleashed leaves one feeling empowered. How many other Beethoven works end in such a manner as this? Only the 'Moonlight' I think.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Usually I'm against such descriptive use of language to describe B's compositions. Music does not typically follow the same logic as language, but if we don't lead the questionner in the approximate right direction here, he may go elsewhere on the net and who knows what complete b*ll*cks he might be presented with.

I think Czerny referred to this sonata as 'Ocean waves on a stormy night and a distant cry for help' - now whether or not we agree, what is important is that the performer has an idea of what the music is saying in his own mind.

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:
Chopin uses a similar theme to the 1st mov of Op.57 in his D minor prelude and this features in the 1945 version of Dorian Gray - Dorian plays the piece himself and then it is played in some dark tavern by a rather sinister old man!

I remember that well! Good movie!!

[Joy]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
The sonata's name describes it perfectly, I think that there's nothing else to say about it, because if we hear it with attention we will understand on it the most emotive and passionated of Beethoven's sonatas. it also has a terrorific mood, perfect for a horror movie.

I also agree. Most emotive, passionate, and dramatic. I think the title really fits the music. It always moves me when I hear it. As far as music for horror flicks go, how about Bach's Toccata in D minor for Organ? Real 'Phantom of the Opera' music!