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    #1

    personal theories

    i thought it would be interesting if we had a thread where we post our personal theories, not only about Beethoven, but about classical in general?

    if anyone else thinks this is a good idea, please say so.

    i will start it off - currently i have an upright piano, that is out of tune, worn, old strings, etc. - and it sounds very unpleasant to my ears. so, the theory and point is about Chris' theory about the forte piano being so less developed and sounds so different - unpleasant - to a degree - imo. so, i agree with Chris' theory that the modern pianos are far more right in an overall sense. i know little of the piano but that ismo (ismo = is my opinion - new "text" abbreviation, qlol!).
    - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells
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    #2
    I don't think that was a theory of mine. The fortepiano is certainly "less developed", because the modern piano developed from it. As for the fortepiano sounding unpleasant, that's just a personal opinion. It's true that I don't find it a very satisfying sound on its own, but I do think it offers interesting possibilities when paired with an orchestra of instruments from its own time. I do really love, for example, Malcolm Bilson's cycle of the Mozart piano concertos with Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists.

    Comment

      #3
      I'm not sure we can say 'more developed' when really it is a different instrument. The Fortepiano itself was a highly developed and sophisticated instrument - why else would it have inspired Mozart, Beethoven and Chopin? I have an 1814 square piano and the sound is delightful, but I wouldn't use it for Beethoven, especially the later works which I reserve for my 1920's Bechstein - I have to say that both these are also annoyingly out of tune due to the horribly cold weather we're having and the consequent fluctuations of temperature with central heating.
      'Man know thyself'

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        #4
        The performer will often make the difference with the instrument. A master can make just about anything sound great.

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          #5
          All good points to my mind.

          The conclusion I come to is that yes the fortepiano was an unimaginable instrument given the time. Though, in conclusion - it is the sound that has changed so much - yes, the forte was an unbelievable instrument (I see this now) - but to hear something like the bosendorfer is so different. Thanks.

          if anyone else has some theories please share.
          - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Preston View Post
            All good points to my mind.

            The conclusion I come to is that yes the fortepiano was an unimaginable instrument given the time. Though, in conclusion - it is the sound that has changed so much - yes, the forte was an unbelievable instrument (I see this now) - but to hear something like the bosendorfer is so different. Thanks.

            if anyone else has some theories please share.
            What has changed is the way we listen - the modern ear is generally far too distracted to hear properly or to concentrate for long enough.
            'Man know thyself'

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              #7
              Originally posted by Peter View Post
              What has changed is the way we listen - the modern ear is generally far too distracted to hear properly or to concentrate for long enough.
              Peter, a good point, and, another theory.
              More to come from me about your point and theory. Just been busy lately - and slack, .

              -----------------
              As a side note, I still plan on replying to your recommendations on Chopin and Elgar.
              - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

              Comment

                #8
                I have a recording of Jean-Yves Thibaudet playing Chopin favorites on one of Chopin's pianos. I'm sure part of my dissatisfaction with the recording is that the piano is old. I'm sure it sounded much better during its first 30 years - as most pianos do. Beethoven worked with the instruments he had available to him at the time. He heard them as they sounded then. ALL pianos lose their original "character" in time.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ludwign3bs View Post
                  I have a recording of Jean-Yves Thibaudet playing Chopin favorites on one of Chopin's pianos. I'm sure part of my dissatisfaction with the recording is that the piano is old. I'm sure it sounded much better during its first 30 years - as most pianos do. Beethoven worked with the instruments he had available to him at the time. He heard them as they sounded then. ALL pianos lose their original "character" in time.
                  I think that is a very valid point - pianos are not like violins and there is a difference between a reconstructed fortepiano and a restored one that is 200 years old!
                  'Man know thyself'

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Peter View Post
                    What has changed is the way we listen - the modern ear is generally far too distracted to hear properly or to concentrate for long enough.
                    i agree the modern ear seems to be very, very different - though, i think it is beautiful too.
                    - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

                    Comment

                      #11
                      imo, Beethoven was deeply - and i mean deeply - disturbed... he was himself out of control - lost from reality - etc. though, he somehow still focused on morality (which as an atheist i do believe, somehow?, there is still somekind of a great sense of decency and virtue which are essential and necessary in a better human-beings life) and he was musically genius to a brilliant degree.

                      so, in short i do not see how people cannot see how he was greatly disturbed?
                      - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Preston View Post
                        imo, Beethoven was deeply - and i mean deeply - disturbed... he was himself out of control - lost from reality - etc. though, he somehow still focused on morality (which as an atheist i do believe, somehow?, there is still somekind of a great sense of decency and virtue which are essential and necessary in a better human-beings life) and he was musically genius to a brilliant degree.

                        so, in short i do not see how people cannot see how he was greatly disturbed?
                        He was eccentric and became more so with increasing deafness and age. Deafness forced him to turn inwards and this inevitably leads to a sense of isolation from the world, but had this not happened to him I'm certain he wouldn't have developed musically in the way that he did resulting in his greatest works from the last period.
                        'Man know thyself'

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Yes, Peter, to my understanding many of his final works are considered to be some of the greatest and most musically complex pieces ever written. It is phenomenal, and, unimaginable - even supernatural, to a degree, imo.
                          - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Preston View Post

                            so, in short i do not see how people cannot see how he was greatly disturbed?
                            Yes, he was disturbed. But so is a cup of tea having milk poured into it, so it's not necessarily a bad thing...

                            Comment

                              #15
                              I do disagree concerning Beethoven (who considered himself openly at least once in his later years to be the most miserable man alive).
                              - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

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