Immortal Beloved DVD Extras

[NickB]

[The original thread has archived off somewhere, so I'll take the liberty or starting a new one...]

I only acquired DVD capability this year at home. My first two DVD purchases were _Amadeus_ and (of course, to be listed last)
_Immortal Beloved_.

I appreciate the numerous "issues" with both of these films w.r.t. historical accuracy, and I sympathise with those who hold them as preventing them from really enjoying either film. However. They are well-filmed stories, even if far too ficticious for good taste.

Whomever it was that was wondering about the extra featurette(s) on the IB DVD...well...I'm afraid you probably wouldn't like it. The director (or producer? I think it's the same guy who appeared in a cameo as the aristocrat/royal/??? scripted as saying "he's no Mozart, is he, Herr Beethoven?" when very young Ludwig broke several strings playing "that tinkly stuff" as he described it to nephew Karl) referred at least 2 or 3 times to "so-called Beethoven scholars" who he says criticized his interpretations or something.

The actors, and particularly the actresses, OTOH, were much more interesting to listen to. And Oldman's talking about learning piano for the film is interesting to this close-enough-to-middle-aged guy who fantasizes about teaching himself piano to play nothing but B.

(But why go to the trouble of learning how to fake a performance of C'to 5, when the subject of that particular scene should have been the rather more interesting performance of late December 1808?!??!?)

Too bad it'd be piracy for me to make copies of the 30 minutes or so of the featurette for use here...and I don't really have the time to transcribe it just now. Suffice to say there's nothing too exciting there for you to worry about. Certainly nothing ground-breaking about the Master.

Sorry for rambling...but I'm posting after having enjoyed several Eurobiers tonight, including golden Flemish hoppy beers and German lagers.

Anyone know of any job openings for English-speaking non-EC citizen VisualBasic/C++/SQL programmers in Belgium???

NP: Op. 132 iii, Cleveland Quartet. So touching. I wish I understood more about 'modes'.

[Joy]

Originally posted by NickB:
[The original thread has archived off somewhere, so I'll take the liberty or starting a new one...]

I only acquired DVD capability this year at home. My first two DVD purchases were _Amadeus_ and (of course, to be listed last)
_Immortal Beloved_.

I appreciate the numerous "issues" with both of these films w.r.t. historical accuracy, and I sympathise with those who hold them as preventing them from really enjoying either film. However. They are well-filmed stories, even if far too ficticious for good taste.

Whomever it was that was wondering about the extra featurette(s) on the IB DVD...well...I'm afraid you probably wouldn't like it. The director (or producer? I think it's the same guy who appeared in a cameo as the aristocrat/royal/??? scripted as saying "he's no Mozart, is he, Herr Beethoven?" when very young Ludwig broke several strings playing "that tinkly stuff" as he described it to nephew Karl) referred at least 2 or 3 times to "so-called Beethoven scholars" who he says criticized his interpretations or something.

The actors, and particularly the actresses, OTOH, were much more interesting to listen to. And Oldman's talking about learning piano for the film is interesting to this close-enough-to-middle-aged guy who fantasizes about teaching himself piano to play nothing but B.

(But why go to the trouble of learning how to fake a performance of C'to 5, when the subject of that particular scene should have been the rather more interesting performance of late December 1808?!??!?)

Too bad it'd be piracy for me to make copies of the 30 minutes or so of the featurette for use here...and I don't really have the time to transcribe it just now. Suffice to say there's nothing too exciting there for you to worry about. Certainly nothing ground-breaking about the Master.

Sorry for rambling...but I'm posting after having enjoyed several Eurobiers tonight, including golden Flemish hoppy beers and German lagers.

Anyone know of any job openings for English-speaking non-EC citizen VisualBasic/C++/SQL programmers in Belgium???

NP: Op. 132 iii, Cleveland Quartet. So touching. I wish I understood more about 'modes'.

Thanks for that information, Nick. I know a
lot of us were wondering about the DVD version and the extra features at the end of the movie. Very interesting. If you think of anything else mentioned there, let us know!!

Joy

[Claudie MICAULT]

Nick you gave me the envy to take a good belgian beer (I am french-flemish living in Gernany so beers...............) ! Actually I was reading your interesting report about the DVD issue drinking a good LEFFE !
A votre santé à tous !!!
(And rendez-vous for the first concert of G. OLDMAN.....)

------------------
Claudie

[Rod]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:

(And rendez-vous for the first concert of G. OLDMAN.....)

You won't see me at this concert, the Beethoven 'a la Oldman' is a Lunatic from the first minute to the last, and a nasty lunatic at that!!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rod:
You won't see me at this concert, the Beethoven 'a la Oldman' is a Lunatic from the first minute to the last, and a nasty lunatic at that!!

Steady, Old man, steady!

M.

[Claudie MICAULT]

Of course Rod, I was joking !!! I hope you realised that (?)

------------------
Claudie

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:

Originally posted by Rod:
You won't see me at this concert, the Beethoven 'a la Oldman' is a Lunatic from the first minute to the last, and a nasty lunatic at that!!

Steady, Old man, steady!

M.

Mmm...yet another joker in the pack! All the same, even ignoring the accuracy issue of the movie I can't understand B fans enjoying O's performance and the nature of the B character as presented by the script. This Beethoven is a nastly man worthy of little sympathy, a pathetic character 'a la Solomon'. Perhaps there is a 'directors cut' released elsewhere that I have not seen? Where B is at times a nice guy?


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
Of course Rod, I was joking !!! I hope you realised that (?)

I knew you were joking, But I have got the impression over time that quite a few people have taken a liking to Oldman's Beethoven. I cannot really understand why.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Zon]

The actors, and particularly the actresses, OTOH, were much more interesting to listen to. And Oldman's talking about learning piano for the film is interesting to this close-enough-to-middle-aged guy who fantasizes about teaching himself piano to play nothing but B.

(But why go to the trouble of learning how to fake a performance of C'to 5, when the subject of that particular scene should have been the rather more interesting performance of late December 1808?!??!?).[/b][/QUOTE]

I dont think Oldman did this to insult anyone, but instead to make himself look somewhat convincing when sitting at the piano. I always laugh when I see (Amadeus) Tom Hulce sitting at the piano as Mozart. The hands do not even sync up...at all. And to me that is just hard to swallow.



[This message has been edited by Zon (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Zon:


I always laugh when I see (Amadeus) Tom Hulce sitting at the piano as Mozart. The hands do not even sync up...at all. And to me that is just hard to swallow.

It amuses me that these guys are so concerned to look convincing at the keyboard and yet they don't care at all about far more important issues - Dirk Bogarde was absurdly cast as Liszt in some dreadful 1950's biopic, yet he took great pains to have lessons in order to 'play'!
I have to agree with Rod about Oldman as Beethoven - most people though seem to praise his performance, even those who critise the inaccuracies.


------------------
'Man know thyself'

[~Immortal Beloved~]

Originally posted by NickB:
[The original thread has archived off somewhere, so I'll take the liberty or starting a new one...]

I only acquired DVD capability this year at home. My first two DVD purchases were _Amadeus_ and (of course, to be listed last)
_Immortal Beloved_.

I appreciate the numerous "issues" with both of these films w.r.t. historical accuracy, and I sympathise with those who hold them as preventing them from really enjoying either film. However. They are well-filmed stories, even if far too ficticious for good taste.

Whomever it was that was wondering about the extra featurette(s) on the IB DVD...well...I'm afraid you probably wouldn't like it. The director (or producer? I think it's the same guy who appeared in a cameo as the aristocrat/royal/??? scripted as saying "he's no Mozart, is he, Herr Beethoven?" when very young Ludwig broke several strings playing "that tinkly stuff" as he described it to nephew Karl) referred at least 2 or 3 times to "so-called Beethoven scholars" who he says criticized his interpretations or something.

The actors, and particularly the actresses, OTOH, were much more interesting to listen to. And Oldman's talking about learning piano for the film is interesting to this close-enough-to-middle-aged guy who fantasizes about teaching himself piano to play nothing but B.

(But why go to the trouble of learning how to fake a performance of C'to 5, when the subject of that particular scene should have been the rather more interesting performance of late December 1808?!??!?)

Too bad it'd be piracy for me to make copies of the 30 minutes or so of the featurette for use here...and I don't really have the time to transcribe it just now. Suffice to say there's nothing too exciting there for you to worry about. Certainly nothing ground-breaking about the Master.

Sorry for rambling...but I'm posting after having enjoyed several Eurobiers tonight, including golden Flemish hoppy beers and German lagers.

Anyone know of any job openings for English-speaking non-EC citizen VisualBasic/C++/SQL programmers in Belgium???

NP: Op. 132 iii, Cleveland Quartet. So touching. I wish I understood more about 'modes'.

I'm very suprised you said about the scenes they earased. I remember seeing the prview of the moive at the age of 16, I thought it would be great until I've seen the IB. I just don't get it about these pathetic directors cutting very single part of that film....It would make more sense showing the whole thing.


------------------
freedom for all- Ludwig Van Beethoven

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rod:
Mmm...yet another joker in the pack! All the same, even ignoring the accuracy issue of the movie I can't understand B fans enjoying O's performance and the nature of the B character as presented by the script. This Beethoven is a nastly man worthy of little sympathy, a pathetic character 'a la Solomon'. Perhaps there is a 'directors cut' released elsewhere that I have not seen? Where B is at times a nice guy?

I have just been watching a Monty Python episode featuring our Ludwig. John Cleese played the part and I could not judge his piano synchronisation as his hands were not visible except when he picked up a gun to shoot a crow (not a parrot!).
Among other serious inaccuracies, the programme showed Mrs Beethoven coming in with a vacuum cleaner while Ludwig was figuring out the opening notes of the Fifth Symphony. Mozart's son, Colin, made an appearance as a rat-killer and it was the noise made by his machine-gun that was the true cause of Beethoven's deafness.
Apart from these lapses, it was more true to life than "Immortal Beloved".

Michael

[NickB]

Originally posted by Peter:

I have to agree with Rod about Oldman as Beethoven - most people though seem to praise his performance, even those who critise the inaccuracies.

I have watched the film perhaps 6 times now. Once in the theater (to keep this topical...a pub-theater serving beer --even quasi-real ale-- and pizza) in ~1995, probably twice on VHS, and 2 or 3 times on DVD. I can't watch any given scene of it now without growing frustrated at the inaccuracies and misportrayals.

However, I still do find Oldman's performance to be quite good, though his character is horribly scripted...as Rod says, a nasty old creep. If I were to be forced to choose one major category of historical misrepresentations of this film as the most heinous or damaging to the truth about B, it would be this character assassination of B. I think it's much worse than the fictional portrayal of Frau Beethoven as the I.B. and B as the father of Karl.

But that's just my opinion.

Again, it's Goldman's look and how well he played the character he was given that I like.

I'll try to re-visit the extra's again soon and transcribe some of the more heinous crap offered up by the director. I don't think the DVD contains any out-takes or cut scenes.

NP: Tempest Sonata by Jeno Jando

[NickB]

Originally posted by NickB:

I'll try to re-visit the extra's again soon and transcribe some of the more heinous crap offered up by the director. I don't think the DVD contains any out-takes or cut scenes.

I had some free time tonight, and I went over the extra features again. Here is a rough transcript (NOT verbatim!) of most of the relevant dialogue by director Bernhard Rose, Gary Oldman, and the other principal actors:

(All paragraphs are transcriptions of Bernhard Rose, unless otherwise indicated, and poor grammar can be attributed to a combination of loose dialogue and my economy in transcription.)

No two of them agree on who (I.B.) was. I defy any of them to prove me wrong.

I was always very interested in the music.

He wasn't the straight-forward heroic great man, but he was a very difficult, problematic
human person, and it's the human qualities that people respond to. (On why no one had
made the movie before.)

The idea of the movie was to use the IB story as a spring board to take the public side
of B (funeral, great German hero, etc.) and show that there were more difficult, private
sides of him that people wouldn't necessarily want to get into.

"Him and Goethe" were the founding fathers of romanticism...

The story was pretty well worked out in my head...I had done a lot of reading and research...

I (Valeria Golino) took the part without reading the script and was the first person cast.

They originally thought of me (Jeroen Krabbe, as Schindler) as B, but then chose Oldman, who passed on it "at least twice". (Oldman) was afraid he'd become a bio-only actor.

Usually when you do this kind of biography, you'd pick one pretty well established biographical
work and use that as your primary source but I didn't do that with this picture because
there really wasn't one that was adequate.

I do a lot of research, but he asked me not to do that, not to read the letters.
Personally I think it is very difficult to find out what the real history was because
if we talk about history there are all these different stories, so this is...ah...one
vision. (Johanna Ter Steege)

I researched her status and who she was, but basically I ended up playing a fictional
character to a certain degree. (Valeria)

You have to look at something like this ultimately as a fantasy or a fiction, because
Bernhard takes history and he takes a character like this, and it's filtered through
his vision, so it's a work of fiction. So going to books to find out about B doesn't
really help you, because you are still imprisoned by the script. (Oldman)

Use music in the background of the great rythmic pacer of all time while filming to be
a backbone of what's going on.

6 weeks to prepare, anchored to a Steinway 5 hours a day. (Oldman)

He had a condition where the bones of the inner ear are fused which does give you
perfect pitch but after a while degenerates into a condition in which loud noises
cause pain...but these are just theories, and no one is absolutely sure.

I did like the film very much. The story-telling is a bit...complicated. But that
I cant judge anymore because I know the story so well, having read the script so many
times and being in it. But I think it worked, I've seen it with several audiences in
LA and Holland and people loved it, with tears in the end. (Jeroen)

I was very angry that the sort of so-called B scholars when the film came out seemed
to sort of do their best to try and like denigrate the picture whereas ultimately the
movie whether you like...agree or don't agree with the details of this or that...the
movie is about the music. (Really???)

The film was really aimed at the 12 or 13 year old who would be discovering this kind
of music for the first time. That was my intention. I wanted to show that it wasn't
something stuffy or something, that this was a better way to go, that there was more
sex & violence in Beethoven than there was in the Sex Pistols, kind of thing. That it
was not some sort of square thing, you know, that it was something worth getting into.

I think I just have a bigger, wider, appreciation not only of just the music, but of
the *achievement*. Now I hear B and I just go "wow, thanks", the world is a better
place for having him in it. (Oldman)



[This message has been edited by NickB (edited 10-09-2001).]

[NickB]

[whoops!]

[This message has been edited by NickB (edited 10-09-2001).]