Kids and Music

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by Jin:
But how can one translate the music into images? Any way you choose to do it there will be dissatisfied people arguing the visuals don't do the music justice, as Fantasia2000 didn't.

I don't agree. I think the images for Pines of Rome and Rhapsody in Blue definately did the music justice. Beethoven's 5th was the only piece where the images didn't even come close.

Bob

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Some have said I am ripe for the Madhouse. Does that make me Beethoven? No, but it is interesting.

[Jin]

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
I don't agree. I think the images for Pines of Rome and Rhapsody in Blue definately did the music justice. Beethoven's 5th was the only piece where the images didn't even come close.

Bob

I was referring expressly to the rendition of the 5th. The Rhapsody was excellent, indeed, but I found the Pines of Rome over the top. Too whimsical for me, but I guess that's exactly what would endear the piece to many others.

[Rei]

I agree too! I can tell you, we never listen to any Beethoven at school (um, I'm 10) and all the other classmates talk about the latest Britney Spears or whatever. That kind of music get's me really annoyed...And, get this, some kids at school don't know WHO Beethoven is and they pronounce Mozart with about three z's so it end up : Mozzzart. Or something.
Anyway, I totally agree on this issue.

[joel fienen]

What is really cool is that my father. Actually sat down with me read the responses of you guys and actually understood my point. That is the first time in along time he sat down with me and agree on something about music. Music can bring families together. I can remember going to a concert with my dad and sitting there thinking to myself. Wow this is so cool that my dad took the time out of his busy schedule to take me to this concert.

The concert that he and I went to was his former piano teachers concert on a forte piano and on the program was some beethoven and mozart. I don't remember what pieces were played, but I do remember my dad taking me out of my school so I could be with him.

Did any of your parents do that with you?

My dad also took me to the famous "ode to joy". When I was in the eigth grade. I remember I missed part of the first movement, but I did get to hear the whole thing. I just cried becuase that was the most awesome piece that I have ever heard of.

[MCS]

I think it's great that you go to concerts with your dad Joel! (The only thing better than going to a Beethoven concert is sharing the experience with someone you love. )
The "Ode to Joy" is awesome when you hear it live! It gives me goose-bumps!

Mary

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Rod:
Just 'cos the music's got a few fiddles in it and it is written by a dead guy doesn't mean by default that it's good music.

I agree.
We tend to forget that Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Handel (and the other prominent names) were not the only composers of the Baroque/classical/romantic era. There were also hundreds of others who are now forgotten, whose music was less than memorable (who would have heard of Salieri if it were not for 'Amadeus'?). If you listened to every piece of classical music that was ever written, you would find that a lot of it was boring and no more musically talented than the Backstreet Boys. It's just that we only remember the best.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Steppenwolf:
I agree.
...If you listened to every piece of classical music that was ever written, you would find that a lot of it was boring and no more musically talented than the Backstreet Boys. It's just that we only remember the best.

The dead guys that ain't no good I was refering to include, in my opinion, many of the ones we remember!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[joel fienen]

Hey Mary!

To this day I still get goose bumps just thinking about singing it. It is one of the best pieces I have sung in a long time. Right noe I am debating on if I should sing Mendalson I am not sure. He is rather diffcult and I am not sure. I think that every body should listen to what evr kind of music puts them in a good mood. For example: I listen to u2 the joshua tree with or with out you over and over. It helps me to remind myself of my wife and future plans in life.

[Vipercat]

I am 17, a pianist and TOALLY in love with classical music. It's really difficult to interact with teens my age and younger about classical music, as they hardly know anything about it and when they do hear it, they perceive it to be boring and "the same".

What irritated me the most was when they said Beethoven's 4th piano concerto was boring!!! No one says that about the Fourth!! ;-) Anyway, it's almost impossible to convince them. It's like they're blinded -- like they just cannot grasp the enormity of a great work. But I don't allow myself to be influenced by the pressure. I can play MY music when I like - why should they be the only ones allowed to express themselves (i.e. ia heavy metal, pop, etc!)?? I frankly don't care if they think I'm weird because I love Beethoven so much (and other composers, for that matter.)

They are missing out on so much! I wish the schools would do more for the arts, like all of you have suggested before.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Vipercat:
I am 17, a pianist and TOALLY in love with classical music. It's really difficult to interact with teens my age and younger about classical music, as they hardly know anything about it and when they do hear it, they perceive it to be boring and "the same".

What irritated me the most was when they said Beethoven's 4th piano concerto was boring!!! No one says that about the Fourth!! ;-) Anyway, it's almost impossible to convince them. It's like they're blinded -- like they just cannot grasp the enormity of a great work. But I don't allow myself to be influenced by the pressure. I can play MY music when I like - why should they be the only ones allowed to express themselves (i.e. ia heavy metal, pop, etc!)?? I frankly don't care if they think I'm weird because I love Beethoven so much (and other composers, for that matter.)

They are missing out on so much! I wish the schools would do more for the arts, like all of you have suggested before.

Please don't think yourself 'weird' just because you like classical music and your friends do not. I believe they're missing out on a lot too, but, of course, they don't think so. Most teens like the contemporary
music and modern things. Just be glad you
enjoy the classics, they're something you will be able to enjoy forever.

Joy

[joel fienen]

Hey Vipercat!

Don't worry what other people think of you. Just be happy with yourself. I know where you are coming from. You should what you think is right. Peer presure can be a pain in the butt. Teens can be very rude towards you because you are different. Teens can also teach us adults what it is like now a days. I have a music teacher friend and she says one of the hardest things to do is to talk to teens about music. You know why. Because a lot of them have not been exposed to the kinds music that we all have been exposed to. There are some music that I will not even touch. That has to be country. My wife loves it so I have grown to love. She has grown to like classical music also. So be afraid to be different. I know growing up I used to get teased alot because I thought Beethoven and Bach were so cool but now a days I listen to alot of u2 and dave mathews band and also a lot of classical music also. Teens are interested in one thing what is popular and if you are not in the in crowd than you are not worth talking to. What do you friends think about you listening to classical music? Do you mostly listen to classical music or do you listen to other kinds of music?

[Vipercat]

Originally posted by joel fienen:
Hey Vipercat!

Don't worry what other people think of you. Just be happy with yourself. I know where you are coming from. You should what you think is right. Peer presure can be a pain in the butt. Teens can be very rude towards you because you are different. Teens can also teach us adults what it is like now a days. I have a music teacher friend and she says one of the hardest things to do is to talk to teens about music. You know why. Because a lot of them have not been exposed to the kinds music that we all have been exposed to. There are some music that I will not even touch. That has to be country. My wife loves it so I have grown to love. She has grown to like classical music also. So be afraid to be different. I know growing up I used to get teased alot because I thought Beethoven and Bach were so cool but now a days I listen to alot of u2 and dave mathews band and also a lot of classical music also. Teens are interested in one thing what is popular and if you are not in the in crowd than you are not worth talking to. What do you friends think about you listening to classical music? Do you mostly listen to classical music or do you listen to other kinds of music?

Hey Joel,

Well, you see, I'm not one of the cool "in - crowd" people because I don't agree with many of the things they do etc. I am also happy with the way I am and NOT concerned about the latest fashion or the sorts. Music is my GREAT passion. Many teens thought I was weird and stupid to listen to music as I do, but I didn't care, I just went on. And as they gained (*some*) maturity, they didn't judge me as harshly as in the beginning. ;-)

I actually don't listen to other types of music besides classical, simply because it irritates me like crazy! I see no kind of emotional sense in it and the electronic sound tires me. I would have liked to do music as a career (pianist) but the 'market' doesn't permit it, so it's not a good option today. ;-) Right now I am practising HARD on Beethoven's Fourth Piano Concerto. NOT an easy piece!!! But I am getting there, hopefully I can play it with the orchestra next year.

[Steppenwolf]

Hey Vipercat!

I know what you mean about being young and liking classical music. I am 21, and also find it difficult to find other peers my age who appreciate classical music in the way that I do. Some of the crap they listen to is horrendous ... I don't mean to sound intolerant and close minded but "rap" would have to be one of the most degenerate and pathetics attempts at music ever.
But on the other hand, I do sort of understand why a lot of people aren't into classical music. You mentioned about how someone you know described Beethoven's 4th piano concerto as "boring", but I can understand why some people would think that. I once used to think poetry was boring, until I had it properly explained to me by my English and Latin teachers (there is a lot of great literature written in Latin) in highschool. Now I think GOOD poetry (not the modern garbage) is wonderful. But you have to be taught how to appreciate fine art, you have to be taught how to appreciate the subtlety of it or otherwise you miss the point entirely. You have the benefit of being a pianist yourself, so you have had the opportunity to learn to appreciate the subtleties of classical music in great depth ... others your age have not.
One word of friendly advice ... don't discount modern music entirely. There is some really great post-1950 pop music which has been written, which has real artistic value, in my opinion. I am a big fan of Led Zeppelin, and I consider 'Stairway to Heaven' to be one of the greatest pieces of music ever written in the 20th century (not, as some might say, 'The Right of Spring', which is basically degenerate, being based on disonance and discord - the enjoyment is abstract and intellectual rather than sensual). The power and tense emotional conflict of the some of the music Led Zeppelin wrote is equal in magnitude to Wagner or Mozart's 'Don Giovani'.
I was the other day listening to a song by the Doors, 'Spanish Caravan' which is actually a rock & roll prelude and fugue in the style of J.S. Bach (with a Turkish flourish, another popular classical style), and 'Light my Fire' is a piece of music basically in the Sonata form (which a lot of counterpoint in the exposition, when there is no singing). Who would have ever thought that Jim Morrison was following in the footsteps of Bach!
Rather than turning me off modern music, my interest in classical music has helped me to appreciate modern music from a much more informed perspective.

[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited 09-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited 09-08-2001).]

[~Leslie]

I found this interesting in that it stands out from most of the usual fare in this discussion room.

There have been several younger males who have passed through these same doors lamenting of not being understood by their peers, in their passion and pursuit of the European classical tradition.

I find music to be like a learned language, and those fortunate enough to educate their ears in the text will find their way beyond the current popular vocal music and into the more complex instrumental zone, and thereby explore the history of such.

Steppenwolf, you are just beginning to get a glimpse of the big picture, and you are off to a great start by exploring the proponents of rock within the 60's and 70's, but your apples to oranges comparison of Zeppelin's Stairway to Stravinsky's Rite of Spring tells me you have very little tolerance for dissonance.

I think that dissonance is another facet of learning the text, simular to acquiring an ear for just intonation, as well as an ear for equal tempered music.

Thirty years into the future from the Doors of Perception and Zeppelin to date, have not been wasted on reciting urban poetry and oversinging, trite, or garbled messages from teenage icons. There are composers and musicians out there who are blending the sounds of 2001, without forgeting the lessons of the past European masters, ---including Beethoven.

[PDG]

Well said, Les, articulate as ever. Yes, it's all buried deep in our collective subconsciousness somewhere. Some of us find it and express it; some of us find it but don't utilise it; some long to find it, but can't; others don't care.....