Did double basses in Beethoven's time have five strings.

[Enrique]

In several places of the second and fourth movement in Beethoven's fifth symphony, if I trust my score, the writing for the double basses reaches beyond E1, the lowest note a normal four-stringed double bass can play. For instance, in the fourth movement, I find bars number 8, 10 and 12, where the basses play C1, that is, a major third below the lower note of a common instrument.

Was the double bass writing in this symphony ever rewritten by some of the orchestra conductors and composers that came after the Master? Or perhaps, like modern double basses, in Beethoven's time these instruments could play those parts?

I never had the opportunity to ask an orchestra conductor this question. Now that I've come to know this beautiful website, I am looking forward to satisfy my curiosity. Regards.

[Peter]

Welcome to the forum!

It is quite common to find notes as low as C below the e string in many scores - all the more remarkable because in Beethoven's time the three string bass was quite normal. In practice the player would simply play an octave higher than written and this generally wouldn't be noticed at such low pitches, except for the very discerning ear. There are basically three ways to extened the range below the E, temporary tuning (scordatura) to a lower pitch, the use of a 5 string bass or the adoption of a mechanical apparatus.

[Enrique]

Well, this question of the double bass and those passages in the Fifth had me really perplex. I'm almost sure that if I inspect the Sacre score looking for notes below E in the basses, I'll find Stravinsky wrote not a single one of them. And this would be a paradox, I think. Thanks for your kind welcome and reply.

EDIT: My mistake. I see lots of Cs at the end of Action rituelle des ancêtres.

[Hofrat]

Dragonetti used 3 strings. See the Dragonetti bass at the British museum.

[Enrique]

And what was the normal tuning for normal three-string instruments during the second half of Beethoven's life? Was it the same in Vienna and in London?

In a portrait of Dragonetti with one of his instruments the three strings are distinctively seen.

[Roehre]

Mahler preferred to have 5-stringed instruments, but these were, even at the time of the premiere of his symphonies, not common.
See e.g. the remark regarding 5 stringed basses at the beginning of the score of the second symphony.

[Enrique]

mindestens einige davon mit Contra-C-Saite

It seems to say something about the C string, yes. I wonder what is the type of instrument used nowadays in the large orchestras, in connection with the extra notes.

[Rutradelusasa]

I remember reading in the Bärenreiter edition of Schubert's chamber music that the part for the double-bass in the trout quintet is for a chamber bass (violone?), and that that one only goes to low E, implying that were it for an orchestral bass, it would be the larger double-bass we see often today and that they were pitched to low C.

[Fidelio]

Double Bass Goes Beethoven

A new recording of the cello sonatas with a double bass.
Explanation which you may find interesting at:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UBSeejoY68