Need help identifying an orchestral piece [symphony?] with Bb chord & added E natural

[roark_h1]

Hi!, I'm new & I need help identifying a Beethoven
orchestral piece [probably a symphony]
with a loud, dramatic [poignant] Bb chord,
probably played by strings [or full Orch] : voiced, as I remember it,
from lo to hi: F,Bb, [D] & added E natural [appogiatura] which resolves to D.

[Peter]

Welcome - do you have any more clues than that? It's a bit vague with all those probablys and maybes!

[EternaLisa]

Welcome - do you have any more clues than that? It's a bit vague with all those probablys and maybes!

Oh come on-rack your brain, Pete!

E

[roark_h1]

OK! I need help identifying a Beethoven symphony with a loud, dramatic [poignant] Bb chord over an F Bass,
with an E natural in the top voice resolving to D,
played by strings w full Orch.

[Sorrano]

The opening chord of the 4th movement of the 9th Symphony comes close.

[Quijote]

Hello Roark. That's a strange chord to my ears, even for Beethoven. Are you sure you've got that right? You wouldn't by any chance be confusing that with the opening passage of B's Ninth 4th movement? In any case, "poignant" and "loud-dramatic" don't quite gel in my lexicon. "Piquant"?

[Quijote]

Sorrano beat me to the post on that one. But is it what you mean? There is indeed a bass F, but no E to D apoggiatura.

[Quijote]

Sorry, Roark (and Sorrano) are right : there is indeed an E in the 2nd violins (and violas).

[Quijote]

The top voice though is B-flat in V1 and flutes.

[Quijote]

So B's Ninth, opening of the 4th movement. Poignant? Shrill, rather !

[roark_h1]

Sorry, that 1st chord of the 9th symphony,4th movement is not the Bb chord I'm looking for!
[But I see why Dm could be a good key for a Bb chord w added E.]

And my Bb chord is not at the beginning or very end of a movement,but somewhere in the middle.
-----------------------------
There is a dramatic intensity to the dissonant E repeated [hammered] 4-8 times [as consecutive eighth or sixteenth notes] before resolving to D on the Bb chord.
Piquant is also a good word for the interval.

[The effect it had on me was wrenching or shatteringly poignant,not tenderly. But I'm not sure how to describe it--that's why I'm seeking it out,to find out why it was important to me.]

And Thanks! I appreciate all the focus & attention!

[Sorrano]

In the 1st movement of the 3rd Symphony, the Eroica, there is a dissonant chord that has the notes mentioned, but does not resolve. It occurs during the development section but I do not have measure numbers for you, sorry.

[Quijote]

I'm afraid you've got me stumped there, Roark. The only other passage I can imagine (off the top of my head-ears) would be a passage in the Eroica (1st movement) just before the episode in remote E minor.

[Quijote]

Sorrano is once again several beats ahead of me !!!!

[Sorrano]

(Maybe I should just get back to work, here.)