Chailly lets Beethoven run

[Peter]

From time to time it seems that we have an inherent need to reinvent Beethoven and other great composers by viewing them in different contexts. The HIP movement was such an event and from my perspective it was rather effective in giving me a new approach to the music. Personally, I like the idea of setting Beethoven in this "modernity" context. It's a good evaluation of how the music holds up 200 years later.

I agree about the HIP movement because we learnt a lot about performance practice of the past which is obviously of value, however I don't need to listen to Beethoven's symphonies with 5 new commissions in order to see how they stack up today - I think it's just a gimmick and a desperate attempt to be different - I mean what have we come to when a respected conductor such as Chailly actually feels the need to say that Beethoven (as though he is some has been second rater) still holds his own against the likes of Dennis Mathews? Having said all that, I might actually like his performances of the symphonies!

I think the more interesting experiment would be to perform them with contemporary works from Beethoven's time - in that way we get a far truer picture of their impact and context. Beethoven's Eroica for example with Clement's Violin concerto which was actually on the same programme at the first public performance.

[Sorrano]

We already get a lot of (recorded) Beethoven symphonies paired with works contemporary to his period. For example, one of my favorite records was a Toscanini recording of his 5th and Schubert's 8th. A lot of my own personal listening tends to be grouped together period for period so I do think it would be interesting to attend concerts with a more varied pairing. My interest in the contemporary composers to Beethoven would be more in their own context, without the shadow of Beethoven hovering over them. I find it harder to concentrate on a Weber overture when I know the Eroica will be played next.

[Peter]

We already get a lot of (recorded) Beethoven symphonies paired with works contemporary to his period. For example, one of my favorite records was a Toscanini recording of his 5th and Schubert's 8th. A lot of my own personal listening tends to be grouped together period for period so I do think it would be interesting to attend concerts with a more varied pairing. My interest in the contemporary composers to Beethoven would be more in their own context, without the shadow of Beethoven hovering over them. I find it harder to concentrate on a Weber overture when I know the Eroica will be played next.

With the pairings I was thinking more of works by Beethoven's more popular contemporaries such as Hummel. I have no problem either with putting modern works with Beethoven, it is the silly idea that somehow because of the modern work we have a better understanding of Beethoven.

[Sorrano]

It's more of a perspective thing than an understanding thing. Because that these works are so oft performed it helps, sometimes, to hear them in a new setting. There are certain works I hear on the local radio station (not necessarily Beethoven) that give me the urge to simply turn the radio off because they are played so often. For example I tire quickly of the Haydn Trumpet Concerto; it's not a bad work but I have heard it so often enroute to work or home that I don't want to hear it anymore. It's the same setting and the same performance; I tire of that after awhile.

[Peter]

It's more of a perspective thing than an understanding thing. Because that these works are so oft performed it helps, sometimes, to hear them in a new setting. There are certain works I hear on the local radio station (not necessarily Beethoven) that give me the urge to simply turn the radio off because they are played so often. For example I tire quickly of the Haydn Trumpet Concerto; it's not a bad work but I have heard it so often enroute to work or home that I don't want to hear it anymore. It's the same setting and the same performance; I tire of that after awhile.

I can understand that, but it wasn't what I meant - there are plenty of forgotten and rarely (if ever) performed works by Beethoven's lesser contemporaries, Ries, Czerny, Clementi, Hummel, Sphor to name just a few that were once very popular and more favourably received than Beethoven's music - it is these composers he was competing with. To recreate the Eroica public premier for example along with the Franz Clement Violin concerto would help perhaps to explain the far more favourable reaction from the critics to the concerto than Beethoven's symphony.

[Sorrano]

Whether with or without Beethoven those composers do need to be heard (and probably would do better without Beethoven, anyway). It is interesting to hear Beethoven with like music but there are those of us who like a more diversified palate; I would love to hear Beethoven and Bartok quartets live in concert, for example. The various genres have evolved from the time of Beethoven and it's interesting to me to see where they are today in comparison to his time.

[Peter]

Whether with or without Beethoven those composers do need to be heard (and probably would do better without Beethoven, anyway). It is interesting to hear Beethoven with like music but there are those of us who like a more diversified palate; I would love to hear Beethoven and Bartok quartets live in concert, for example. The various genres have evolved from the time of Beethoven and it's interesting to me to see where they are today in comparison to his time.

I agree mostly with that - don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it isn't right or interesting to pair the classics with modern works, but I think you get a better impression of the impact of Beethoven on his own time when his contemporaries are played alongside. I mentioned the Clement concerto with the Eroica, but how about Mozart's Bastien overture before the Eroica or Eggerts Eb symphony before Beethoven's 5th? There are many novel and interesting programmes that can be made like this without continuously resorting to the standard classical repertoire of Haydn, Mozart etc .

[Quijote]

A follow up article about Chailly & Beethoven:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011...chailly-review

[Peter]

A follow up article about Chailly & Beethoven:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011...chailly-review

Interesting Philip - obviously a balance has to be struck and no matter what the metronome mark, the music should always speak clearly - the metronome is only a guide and perhaps in their desire to be 'authentic' actually some conductors have become too literal? Norrington immediately springs to mind and I can't accept his complete dismissal of vibrato - it's going from one extreme to the other.

[Quijote]

And yet another follow-up article on Chailly & Beethoven :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011...chailly-review