Have these versions ever been recorded?

[Chris]

Does anyone know if there are any recordings of these versions of these works?

"Opferlied", Op. 121b - The version I think we are all familiar with is the last one from 1824, with just a soprano soloist. But there was an earlier version from 1822 with soprano, alto and tenor soloists, as well as some different scoring in the instruments. Is there are recording of this earlier version?

Hess 1 - This is an alternate ending to the first movement of Symphony No. 8. Has the symphony ever been recorded with this variant?

[Roehre]

Does anyone know if there are any recordings of these versions of these works?

"Opferlied", Op. 121b - The version I think we are all familiar with is the last one from 1824, with just a soprano soloist. But there was an earlier version from 1822 with soprano, alto and tenor soloists, as well as some different scoring in the instruments. Is there are recording of this earlier version?

Hess 1 - This is an alternate ending to the first movement of Symphony No. 8. Has the symphony ever been recorded with this variant?

Hess 1 hasn't been recorded yet, but there is this midi file

AFAIK the trio-version of op.121b hasn't been recorded either (though there is an 1822 choral version on a Koch - CD-unfortunately out of print as Koch went bust).

[Chris]

Thanks. I thought the 1822 version was for three soloists and choir. What is this version with just choir? I have never heard of it.

[Preston]

Hess 1 hasn't been recorded yet, but there is this midi file

AFAIK the trio-version of op.121b hasn't been recorded either (though there is an 1822 choral version on a Koch - CD-unfortunately out of print as Koch went bust).

Roehre, !!! How do you know all of this!? That is some precise information.

[Chris]

Here are a couple more:

WoO 35:

This canon is said to have been written for Otto de Boer and is always played on two violins as far as I have heard. But the Unheard Beethoven Site says this was actually written for Samson de Boer, a cellist, and that the piece is actually for two cellos. Has this ever been recorded for two cellos? And for that matter, how could there be a controversy over violin vs. cello? Surely the notation of the music would make that obvious?

WoO 105:

There are two versions here, one in A and a unison version in C. The DG Complete Beethoven Edition has the one in A. Has anyone heard a recording of the version in C? Perhaps in one of the newer complete editions?

[Michael]

WoO 105:

There are two versions here, one in A and a unison version in C. The DG Complete Beethoven Edition has the one in A. Has anyone heard a recording of the version in C? Perhaps in one of the newer complete editions?

I have four different recordings of this - one of them being from the DGG Complete Edition - and they all sound in the same key (so it must be A).
Two of them are from the newer 2007 "Complete" editions and another is included on Hermann Prey's set of the complete lieder.
The arrangement appears to be the same on all four - male soloist with mixed voices and a piano accompaniment.

[Chris]

Roehre, !!! How do you know all of this!? That is some precise information.

Yes, Roehre's knowledge of music and recordings is amazing. I owe many of the rarer CDs in my collection to something he posted or a question he answered. Even reading his "What are you listening to now?" posts are enlightening - I frequently find out about pieces and composers I never even knew existed that way! Roehre's presence here is indeed a great benefit to us. Thanks Roehre!

[Chris]

I have four different recordings of this - one of them being from the DGG Complete Edition - and they all sound in the same key (so it must be A).
Two of them are from the newer 2007 "Complete" editions and another is included on Hermann Prey's set of the complete lieder.
The arrangement appears to be the same on all four - male soloist with mixed voices and a piano accompaniment.

Yes, I knew about the one on Prey's set, but I had no idea about the recordings on the other complete Editions, so thanks for that. You are certainly the resident complete edition expert! It seems this variant has been missed by everyone. And from I have read, we don't actually know which version was actually performed at the wedding for which it was written.

[Chris]

And here's a non-Beethoven one that maybe you pianists would know about.

Chopin's Rondo, Op. 1 supposedly exists in versions for two hands and four hands. I have checked every recording and every edition of sheet music I can find, and I can find no trace of the four-hand version. Does it really exist?

[Roehre]

WoO 105:

There are two versions here, one in A and a unison version in C. The DG Complete Beethoven Edition has the one in A. Has anyone heard a recording of the version in C? Perhaps in one of the newer complete editions?

Indeed, there exist two versions of WoO 105, mentioned in the Kinsky/Halm (p.567), but considered to be the same work.
Hess disagrees, and IMO rightly so:
we find the A major as Hess 124 (=WoO 105) and its choral refrain is 4-part , the C major as Hess 125, with a unison choral refrain, which IMO is less interesting (therefore sofar all "complete" editions prefer the A major version).

I am afraid I don't know of any recording of Hess 125, and I have never heard it either (I have seen it: it is published in the Supplement to the (old) Beethoven Gesamtausgabe in vol.V (1962))

[Roehre]

Here are a couple more:

WoO 35:

This canon is said to have been written for Otto de Boer and is always played on two violins as far as I have heard. But the Unheard Beethoven Site says this was actually written for Samson de Boer, a cellist, and that the piece is actually for two cellos. Has this ever been recorded for two cellos? And for that matter, how could there be a controversy over violin vs. cello? Surely the notation of the music would make that obvious?

Jos van der Zanden convincingly proves in "Meneer de Boer" (Beethoven: Nieuwe Onthullingen, Haarlem 1993 pp.128-140 - an edited, amended and enlarged transcript of a series re Beethoven, broadcast on Dutch radio winter 1992/1993) that the Canon WoO 35 was meant for Samson Moses de Boer, a Dutch cellist, and that the canon is for 2 cellos (the music is to be found on p.136, but that's for some reason the violin version).
It was performed during that broadcast, but I've never seen that recording (or any another ) commercially or otherwise being released, .

for those interested in the sketches for these 9 bars of music: these are found (literary in the middle!) among the sketches for the 3rd mvt of opus 130 in the De Roda desk sketchbook (fol.30r, Beethovenhaus Bonn)

[Roehre]

And here's a non-Beethoven one that maybe you pianists would know about.

Chopin's Rondo, Op. 1 supposedly exists in versions for two hands and four hands. I have checked every recording and every edition of sheet music I can find, and I can find no trace of the four-hand version. Does it really exist?

No, opus 1 never existed in a four-hand version.
The misunderstandig follows the incorrect assumption that the music of opus 1 (in c-minor, 1825) is identical with a Rondo for two-hands in C-major (1828) That Rondo does exist in a four-hand version as well, and is known as Rondo in C opus 73, but wasn't published during Chopin's lifetime (1855).

[Roehre]

Thanks Roehre!

You are very welcome

[Chris]

No, opus 1 never existed in a four-hand version.
The misunderstandig follows the incorrect assumption that the music of opus 1 (in c-minor, 1825) is identical with a Rondo for two-hands in C-major (1828) That Rondo does exist in a four-hand version as well, and is known as Rondo in C opus 73, but wasn't published during Chopin's lifetime (1855).

Is that what happened? I know of the two versions of Op. 73 for sure (one piano and two pianos), and I thought Op. 1 just had a similar story behind it, with a four-hands version being produced at some point. Even Wikipedia lists it as coming about in 1834. But that would at least explain why I can't seem to find any music for a four-hands version, even among the many editions on IMSLP.

Well, Roehre, it seems you managed to solve all my mysteries! Although you did introduce a new one - what this 1822 choral version of Op. 121b is on that Koch disc. Maybe it's the trio version with choir sections instead of soloists or something? Maybe I'll try to track down a copy and investigate.

Thanks again!

[Michael]

Yes, Roehre's knowledge of music and recordings is amazing. I owe many of the rarer CDs in my collection to something he posted or a question he answered. Even reading his "What are you listening to now?" posts are enlightening - I frequently find out about pieces and composers I never even knew existed that way! Roehre's presence here is indeed a great benefit to us. Thanks Roehre!

I second that!