Beethoven conducting (portrait)

[Preston]

I was looking for a portrait of Beethoven conducting that I wanted to share with you all. I found the portrait, one in black and white (which is the only one I had seen) and one in color. Ever since I saw this image it has moved me. It reminds me of Beethoven conducting the 5th. Anyway, here it is:

[Rutradelusasa]

The baton on his hand throws me off. That would put him after Spohr's and Weber's device.

[Michael]

I have this on the cover of a CD. Highly romanticised but nice. The baton looks effective but is historically inaccurate.
Megan, maybe your pictorial expertise can dig up something about this portrait?

[Preston]

I have this on the cover of a CD. Highly romanticised but nice. The baton looks effective but is historically inaccurate.
Megan, maybe your pictorial expertise can dig up something about this portrait?

I did not know the baton was inaccurate, seems like I had read it was not used until later but never really have thought about it. Any information on the baton? Did Beethoven ever use one? Because in this portrait he used that baton as I imagine he would, !

Michael, I agree the baton it does look effective. I think I see what you are saying about highly romanticized, though am not entirely sure. Would you mind explaining? Personally, I do not think it is highly romanticized, because it does remind me of a side of Beethoven's aura, which to my mind is very common and obvious in the Beethoven portraits. I'm not saying his aura was like this portrait all the time, it could have been as diverse as his music.

That and I find the black and white an extremely passionate portrait - when I look at it I see the great musical genius and suffering, dark and mysterious, losing his hearing and battling own, etc. and still passionately conducting with all his eccentricity, madness, raw feeling, his will to live on, and all his strength.

[Michael]

Michael, I agree the baton it does look effective. I think I see what you are saying about highly romanticized, though am not entirely sure. Would you mind explaining? Personally, I do not think it is highly romanticized, because it does remind me of a side of Beethoven's aura, which to my mind is very common and obvious in the Beethoven portraits. I'm not saying his aura was like this portrait all the time, it could have been as diverse as his music.

.

Actually, you're right, Preston. It could be quite an accurate likeness of B but it wasn't drawn or painted from life (unless I'm totally mistaken - which would be nothing new.) But this appears to be one of a huge amount of such portraits which emerged in the middle or late 19th century, although this particular one is less "romantic" than many others which depict the composer lying down under a tree with notebook in hand and storm clouds overhead - you know the type of thing.
Regarding the baton, I don't think Beethoven ever used anything other than his hands to conduct. If you have ever seen that excellent BBC one-off drama "Eroica", you will notice that B doesn't even stand for most of the performance (although this was a private run-through at Prince Lobkowitz's). I think I read somewhere that he may have used a rolled-up sheet of music as a baton.
Personally, I think it's just as well B never did use a baton because, sooner or, later he would throw it at one of the players and probably put an eye out.

[Preston]

Actually, you're right, Preston. It could be quite an accurate likeness of B but it wasn't drawn or painted from life (unless I'm totally mistaken - which would be nothing new.) But this appears to be one of a huge amount of such portraits which emerged in the middle or late 19th century, although this is particular one is less "romantic" than many others which depict the composer lying down under a tree with notebook in hand and storm clouds overhead - you know the type of thing.
Regarding the baton, I don't think Beethoven ever used anything other than his hands to conduct. If you have ever seen that excellent BBC one-off drama "Eroica", you will notice that B doesn't even stand for most of the performance (although this was a private run-through at Prince Lobkowitz's). I think I read somewhere that he may have used a rolled-up sheet of music as a baton.
Personally, I think it's just as well B never did use a baton because, sooner or, later he would throw it at one of the players and probably put an eye out.

Michael, I am pretty sure it was not painted from life. Though, now I want to look into who painted it. Will have to look into this.

Wanted to mention this - regarding the Eroica movie, I once read an account of what Beethoven looked like during the performance you speak of. If I remember it correctly, it said he was a short man, with bifocals, with short hair. So this just tells me again - when will they get a decent Beethoven in film? Though, for all its inaccuracies - and given the scene - I thought with Gary Oldman there was an better likeness. The guy just looked right, !

[Quijote]

I have no idea if Beethoven ever used a baton or not (or even Ries's ripped off leg). Today, some use the stick, others not. Boulez IMO does very well with his hands, eyebrows and sarcasm when rehearsing the orchestra.
A personal pet hate : choir conductors rehearsing and then performing choir+orchestral works (Brucker's Masses come to mind) : lots of waffly, off-beat, vague gestures that suit the choir but annoy the hell out of the players.
I was once press-ganged into a training course for choral conductors wishing to try their hand (or baton) at leading a string orchestra. Let us say that a clear down beat for a string player has little to do with giving the nod to the choir.