Mozart and the fugue, and, a fugue

[Preston]

While watching Amadeus the other night, during the scene where the overture to The Magic is briefly played, after the slow introduction of the overture when it the begins being played very fast that it sounded fugal? I do not know much about the fugue except the basic sound of the themes overlapping so much, I guess you would say? Anyway, I am wondering if the majority of the overture is a fugue and if Mozart ever wrote a fugue? Thanks for any help. Also, is there a simple explanation to what a fugue is?

[Sorrano]

Here is a simple answer: http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistra...ugue/fugue.htm

A more complex answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue

Hope that helps.

[Chris]

I do not recall the overture to The Magic Flute being fugal. But yes, Mozart did write fugues, such as his Fugue in C minor for two keyboards, K 426:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjpecOLZJsE

He also utilized fugal writing in other works, such as in the finale to the "Jupiter" symphony.

What is a fugue? Basically, it is a contrapuntal composition in two or more voices. It has a subject (a basic theme), and that subject is introduced at the beginning by each voice, in an overlapping manner. The subject will generally return throughout. There are many options as to how each voice presents the subject, the number of subjects, and other things. It's hard thing to define simply.

[Peter]

The Allegro theme is indeed given fugal treatment. Mozart's wife Constanze used to love Woolfie playing Bach fugues and he did write some as well.

[Preston]

Thanks for the help.

Sorrano, I will give the sites a more thorough looking at in a little while. Wikipedia, is where I will get confused because of of the technicality.

What is a fugue? Basically, it is a contrapuntal composition in two or more voices. It has a subject (a basic theme), and that subject is introduced at the beginning by each voice, in an overlapping manner. The subject will generally return throughout. There are many options as to how each voice presents the subject, the number of subjects, and other things. It's hard thing to define simply.

Excellent Chris! That is indeed a well thought out simple explanation. Chris can you explain one of the key points of the fugue (apparently) "contrapuntal" as easily as fugue, ?

The Allegro theme is indeed given fugal treatment.

Thank you for clarifying Peter - that is what I was looking for. It definitely has the qualities Chris described above to a great extent.

[Preston]

Also, why do the great masters of music feel it necessary to write a fugue? Did they ever say anything? I do understand that it is a very respected form if written masterfully because of its complexity, ability it takes to be able to write a masterful fugue, etc. Though I still wonder why write a fugue? I am saying there must be a great artistic purpose and not just for showing off - correct?

[Sorrano]

Also, why do the great masters of music feel it necessary to write a fugue? Did they ever say anything? I do understand that it is a very respected form if written masterfully because of its complexity, ability it takes to be able to write a masterful fugue, etc. Though I still wonder why write a fugue? I am saying there must be a great artistic purpose and not just for showing off - correct?

Just keep in mind that contrapuntal is counter-point. That is where multiple voices are independent of each other and will often run counter to each other. It's considered a fairly cerebral approach to thematic development, so it was a quite popular device to demonstrate a composer's skills. Bach, for example, could improvise some of the most intricate fugues on first sight of a given theme. To create a fugue is one thing, but to make it effective and interesting is an accomplishment.

[Chris]

I listened to the overture and indeed there is fugal writing there. Sorry about that!

Though I still wonder why write a fugue? I am saying there must be a great artistic purpose and not just for showing off - correct?

The complexity is very intellectually stimulating, I think. As Sorrano said, to make it beautiful as well is a challenge! He also gave a very good explanation of counterpoint.

[Peter]

I listened to the overture and indeed there is fugal writing there. Sorry about that!



The complexity is very intellectually stimulating, I think. As Sorrano said, to make it beautiful as well is a challenge! He also gave a very good explanation of counterpoint.

Yes indeed some of the Bach 48 are themselves rather dry, often the preludes being of more interest, others though such as Ab Book l, G major Book l, C# major book l, C# minor books 1&2 (just to name a few of my favourites) are wonderful.

[Peter]

Also, why do the great masters of music feel it necessary to write a fugue? Did they ever say anything? I do understand that it is a very respected form if written masterfully because of its complexity, ability it takes to be able to write a masterful fugue, etc. Though I still wonder why write a fugue? I am saying there must be a great artistic purpose and not just for showing off - correct?

You might just as well ask why write a symphony or an opera?! The human desire to create is the answer and obviously genius has to find an outlet.

Here's another great Mozart fugue example from the Requiem (Kyrie Eleison)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNEUM...eature=related

[Joy]

Here is a simple answer: http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistra...ugue/fugue.htm

A more complex answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue

Hope that helps.

That was very informative. Thanks Sorrano!

[Preston]

You might just as well ask why write a symphony or an opera?! The human desire to create is the answer and obviously genius has to find an outlet.

Here's another great Mozart fugue example from the Requiem (Kyrie Eleison)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNEUM...eature=related

Yes, good points. I like the performance of the Kyrie you chose - it is probably my favorite performance of The Requiem - Bohm. I have had it saved as a playist for around a year and listen to it often. I have noticed the complex voice writing in the Kyrie though it has never stood out to my mind as being a fugue - thank you for pointing that out.

[Preston]

Just keep in mind that contrapuntal is counter-point. That is where multiple voices are independent of each other and will often run counter to each other. It's considered a fairly cerebral approach to thematic development, so it was a quite popular device to demonstrate a composer's skills. Bach, for example, could improvise some of the most intricate fugues on first sight of a given theme. To create a fugue is one thing, but to make it effective and interesting is an accomplishment.

Thanks Sorrano. Will have to look into counterpoint more.

[Chris]

Yes, good points. I like the performance of the Kyrie you chose - it is probably my favorite performance of The Requiem - Bohm. I have had it saved as a playist for around a year and listen to it often. I have noticed the complex voice writing in the Kyrie though it has never stood out to my mind as being a fugue - thank you for pointing that out.

You will find a lot of fugal writing in those classical Mass settings.

[Peter]

You will find a lot of fugal writing in those classical Mass settings.

Yes and of course in Baroque.
Here are some great fugues for Preston from Beethoven's Missa Solemnis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13l7S...eature=related
Credo - Et Vitam Venturi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXRCxaDIfBs
Gloria, fugue starts at 1'10