Beethoven and his Beloveds

[stout]

Though Beethoven had many women in his life it is confusing to what he did with them or for them.
What I am asking is how far into a relationship did Beethoven go? Did he just pine for these ladies or did he get into a serious relationship with them-it was possible he was a father? I do not know and thats why I am asking.
Has anyone here seen "Impromtu" Its not about Beethoven but Chopin, obviously and has Hugh Grant as the Polish vitruoso.
It was good but no thrill.
Regards
Stout,

[Chris]

As far as I know, there is no definite evidence that he ever had sexual relations. There may be some reason to believe that he made use of protitutes at times. I think we can be pretty sure that he was never a father, in any case.

[Claudie MICAULT]

????????????
Well Chris, it is YOUR opinion ! But not mine. Beethoven was a man of flesh and blood, quite passionate, and had almost two true loves (Josephine Brunswick and the "Immortal beloved") He wrote himself that "the sexual act without love is only bestial thing".... He respected the women he loved anyway enough to protect their "anonymat".
A good look trought his letters and other writings is enough to clear a lot of false ideas. Naturally one need a perfect translation of the German text and it is far to exist : there are so many errors which conduct to misunterpretation.

Claudie


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Claudie

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
[B]As far as I know, there is no definite evidence that he ever had sexual relations. B]

Heck, if it wasn't for the DNA evidence present in my daughter, there'd be no concrete evidence that I've had 'sexual relations'... only heresay, pure conjecture, wild fantasy and just plain lies lies lies!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

I state facts, my friends; I leave interpretation of those facts to the more daring of you!

[~Immortal Beloved~]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
????????????
Well Chris, it is YOUR opinion ! But not mine. Beethoven was a man of flesh and blood, quite passionate, and had almost two true loves (Josephine Brunswick and the "Immortal beloved") He wrote himself that "the sexual act without love is only bestial thing".... He respected the women he loved anyway enough to protect their "anonymat".
A good look trought his letters and other writings is enough to clear a lot of false ideas. Naturally one need a perfect translation of the German text and it is far to exist : there are so many errors which conduct to misunterpretation.

Claudie

I agree with you all the way Claudie!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
I state facts, my friends; I leave interpretation of those facts to the more daring of you!

The fact is he was a man and as far as I am aware didn't take any vow of celibacy!


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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

All I said is that we have no definite evidence - nothing more.

Anyway, he may not have taken a vow of celibacy, but he was an ummarried Catholic, which is just as good! (And yes, I realize it is not believed he was a particularly devout Catholic.)

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chris:
All I said is that we have no definite evidence - nothing more.

Anyway, he may not have taken a vow of celibacy, but he was an ummarried Catholic, which is just as good! (And yes, I realize it is not believed he was a particularly devout Catholic.)

Being an unmarried Catholic in those days might have meant you are right but probably not anymore, married or unmarried!!

[Chris]

Originally posted by Joy:
Being an unmarried Catholic in those days might have meant you are right but probably not anymore, married or unmarried!!

Could you rephrase that? I didn't quite understand

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
Being an unmarried Catholic in those days might have meant you are right but probably not anymore, married or unmarried!!

Not in B's case I think, as Chris has pointed out he was not devout. I'm not really up on the doctrinal side of things, but I know that when Liszt became an Abbe , he didn't go the whole hog as he was not willing to take a vow of celibacy!

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Vows of celibacy are not really part of minor orders. Those who decided to take them could marry freely. And although they are called "minor holy orders," they were not actually sacramental, as are the orders of priests, bishops, and deacons. (Subdeacons were considered minor orders.)

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Vows of celibacy are not really part of minor orders. Those who decided to take them could marry freely. And although they are called "minor holy orders," they were not actually sacramental, as are the orders of priests, bishops, and deacons. (Subdeacons were considered minor orders.)

Presuming such vows of celibacy were and are part of the 'major' orders. Please explain why every bishop seems to have at least one love child or he 'likes' little boys or he is a practising homosexual? This vow is surely a sham? Join us Protestants Chris, our men of the cloth can shag whoever or whatever they want...animal, mineral, vegetable...freely and without shame.

Certainly if you are of a randy persuasion, the best thing you can do is join the Church.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 08-14-2001).]

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by Rod:
Presuming such vows of celibacy were and are part of the 'major' orders. Please explain why every bishop seems to have at least one love child or he 'likes' little boys or he is a practising homosexual? This vow is surely a sham? Join us Protestants Chris, our men of the cloth can shag whoever or whatever they want...animal, mineral, vegetable...freely and without shame.

Certainly if you are of a randy persuasion, the best thing you can do is join the Church.

<font color="red">I'd be reading Leviticus if I were you. Chapter 18, to be specific.</font>

<font color="green>Bob

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Some have said I am ripe for the Madhouse. Does that make me Beethoven? No, but it is interesting.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Composer (edited 08-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bob the Composer (edited 08-14-2001).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Please explain why every bishop seems to have at least one love child or he 'likes' little boys or he is a practising homosexual? This vow is surely a sham?

Damnable lies perptuated by people with an agenda against the Catholic Church. The few who act in this manner just happen to draw all the attention. What a shame we'd rather hear about the instances of perversion and corruption from the media instead of those of charity and kindness. That's why I never watch the news on TV - too depressing!