Major and Minor Scales

[Ed C]

Yes I enjoyed this, thanks - definitely better than our local pub pianist (even before he's had a few)

I think we're in agreement now.

"Better technique" - yes. Since one can also say "4" is the better answer to the sum of 2 + 2 than "3" or "5". That would lie outside subjectivity. Anyways I know this is really mountains from molehills here - I'm just putting off a visit to the dentist

[Quijote]

Yes I'd agree because you're talking (aside from food and buildings) about people who reached the very highest level of perfection in their art. I do think however it is perfectly possible to say that Beethoven was a better composer than Salieri or Hummel for example, just as he was certainly a better composer and pianist than I am!

I'm sorry, there is some clausal confusion, which means I haven't understood what you have said. You agree that Beethoven is better than Haydn and that Bach is better than Palestrina?

[Quijote]

Firstly I wasn't attempting to provoke you (though it's quite predictable when you'll suddenly reappear), merely expressing my own opinion which I suppose amounts to the same thing to you! Interesting that in your 'resentful ' list you mainly list pleasant natural sounds such as birdsong, water, leaves, but with car honks thrown in to wreck the idyll conjured up - I think you'll just have to accept gracefully that you're in a very small minority indeed if you find jets, lawn mowers etc.. a welcome 'musical' sound but might I suggest moving close to an airport or perhaps a motorway to indulge the passion? I would imagine most people here probably prefer a Beethoven symphony to a Boeing 747 but I wouldn't be so certain about the tea - I prefer coffee

"Graceful" is my middle name, and "minority" its adjunct. You are deliberately trying to misconstrue me again, Peter, and really it is tiresome but expected. I don't know about you, but if I had wall-to-wall classical music assasiling my eardrums all day long I would call this noise pollution, if not aural harassment. I know people (they call themselves educated music lovers) who have the classical radio station on all day whilst they wash, cook, iron, eat, mow the lawn, read, study, talk, defecate, have dinner parties .... Is this OK then? Of course I wouldn't want to listen to screeching brakes and jet noises and chainsaws for more than a few moments, I merely said that these sounds I can find musical (for short periods) and offer possibilities for exploitation. Did I say anything different? Do tell.

[Quijote]

Philip, I don't think anyone would find birdsong or a babbling brook to be unmusical, in fact there are CD's with the sounds of nature, which I find very soothing. A particular natural sound I find that can sooth me to sleep is listening to crickets making their little chirpy sounds all night long, I used to be lulled to sleep by them when I lived in Canada.
But, when it comes to car horns, hovering helicopters, or the screech of police car sirens, etc. just makes me want to put my ear plugs in.

Megan, birdsdong and babbling brooks are musical (and probably soothing, provided you are not in a particular Hitcock film or drowning), but clearly we are talking about subjective responses, here. My point is that I happen to find certain other sonic phenomena (or noises, or sounds or whatever term you want) musical too, or pleasant, though not necessarily for extended periods of time.

[Quijote]

Environmental sounds can have musical attributes, absolutely agree on that. You could derive pitches from any sound really. But I would draw the line at calling "chance derived" sounds as music [...]

Interesting. Many untrained music lovers have problems distinguishing between music composed by chance procedures (let us say Cage) and music that has been thought out down to the last note and nuance (let us say Boulez). I would go further EdC and challenge you to apply your "categorization" to the music of Brian Ferneyhough. You draw your lines rather low, I feel.

[Quijote]

I suppose this should almost be self-evident, but "some" AG people complain about how "stupid" the public is because they need to justify their art against a public tide of indifference their music. The way to do that is to say "Ah - they don't 'get it'. History will prove me right, I'll be famous and the foolish naysayers will be forgotten." [...]

Yada yada yada ... Yes, it's a fair point that works both ways. My entry into this forum (5+ years ago?) was the inverse : I took exception to the "contemporary music is crap" tone of some postings. I accept that some poseurs on the AG disparage anything classical. Both positions are vacuous. Let's get something straight here (and Tex, sit up and pay attention, though I know it's hard whilst chewing the cud and exuding methane): I am a classically trained musician (er, that means I kind of like Beethoven, dig?) with extremely catholic tastes that extend to and encompass contemporary forms of music. What causes me to be caustic is the knee-jerk, anti-contemporary stance.

[Quijote]

It is a fault that both sides have, that people tend to think that their side is superior to the other, and it may very well be to those taking the sides. It's going to boil down to individual decisions to like or dislike a composition, style, or whatever. Forced exposure is certainly not an answer as it alienates the intended audience [...]

As ever Sorrano, you are the quiet, restrained wise man of this forum, and I for one am glad for it. When I need calming down, and quiet reasoning, I know where to come looking ...

[Quijote]

So, that's me done on this "Minor and Major Scales" thread. Minor "sad" / major "happy". Hmm.

[The Dude]

"Graceful" is my middle name, and "minority" its adjunct. You are deliberately trying to misconstrue me again, Peter, and really it is tiresome but expected. I don't know about you, but if I had wall-to-wall classical music assasiling my eardrums all day long I would call this noise pollution, if not aural harassment. I know people (they call themselves educated music lovers) who have the classical radio station on all day whilst they wash, cook, iron, eat, mow the lawn, read, study, talk, defecate, have dinner parties .... Is this OK then? Of course I wouldn't want to listen to screeching brakes and jet noises and chainsaws for more than a few moments, I merely said that these sounds I can find musical (for short periods) and offer possibilities for exploitation. Did I say anything different? Do tell.

Patronizing and downright rude cowboy (or girl). Instead of aiming your toy pistol at this dude, what about getting back to discussing music on the forum? Watch out for the Dude. He's so mean... [Edited by Chris - Please don't post things like that.]

[Peter]

"Graceful" is my middle name, and "minority" its adjunct. You are deliberately trying to misconstrue me again, Peter, and really it is tiresome but expected. I don't know about you, but if I had wall-to-wall classical music assasiling my eardrums all day long I would call this noise pollution, if not aural harassment. I know people (they call themselves educated music lovers) who have the classical radio station on all day whilst they wash, cook, iron, eat, mow the lawn, read, study, talk, defecate, have dinner parties .... Is this OK then? Of course I wouldn't want to listen to screeching brakes and jet noises and chainsaws for more than a few moments, I merely said that these sounds I can find musical (for short periods) and offer possibilities for exploitation. Did I say anything different? Do tell.

Well I don't know anyone who listens to CM all day, but virtually every shop you go in, has pop blaring out and people seem quite happy working with that - I'd sue the employer!

[Megan]

Well I don't know anyone who listens to CM all day, but virtually every shop you go in, has pop blaring out and people seem quite happy working with that - I'd sue the employer!

Yes, including taxi's , cafe's, hairdressers, walking around shopping malls and sitting in the doctor's waiting room, mind you if you didn't have blood pressure before you seen the doctor , you will have, by the time you've sat there waiting for your appointment.
The rubbish they play is anything but relaxing.

[Euan Mackinnon]

Ed C 05-04-11 @ 14:05

One of my favorite living pianists is Hyun-Jung Lim - she plays the Hammerklavier at the manuscript tempo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzttpRoVnoc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=055zq2IyqRQ

[My emphasis]

Thanks for the ref Ed.

First a question, is the tempo she uses really what was on the original manuscript?

To my ears, Hyun-Jung Lim has assumed a marking of 'Fast and Unremittingly Furious' as Beethoven's intention. While she exhibits impressive technical ability and while at 23 (?) she can be excused for pyrotechnics, I wasn't in any way moved by the performance.

To my entirely untrained ear, the later Beethoven sonatas have a great profundity and Hyun-Jung Lim, with the exception of a few passages (which I did enjoy), seems to be almost completely uninterested is exploring the Hammerklavier's depth.

Give her a few more years and my betting is that she will see, and play, the piece in an entirely different way.

Euan

[The Dude]

Patronizing and downright rude cowboy (or girl). Instead of aiming your toy pistol at this dude, what about getting back to discussing music on the forum? Watch out for the Dude. He's so mean... [Edited by Chris - Please don't post things like that.]

That lascivious, unpalatable quote comes from a 1980's sitcom "Murphy Brown" - a favorite on primetime US television. I presume you'll censor the far more offensive quote about the cello sitting between somebody's legs. Downright crude - especially for those with no sense of humor. I object, as it's lowering the standard of this Forum. Just because somebody else said it doesn't make it acceptable. I notice the intelligent and humorous Michael used his own discretion and judgment.

Oh yes, The Dude is going to have fun on this site with its double standards.

[Sorrano]

Euan, just a note; I haven't forgotten this concept of "reducing" compositions to mathematical formulas, as it's been on my mind for a bit. When I get a little time I want to investigate this a bit; your idea of fingerprints in the formulas is intriguing to me.

[Chris]

I presume you'll censor the far more offensive quote...

I already have. This is the last time I'm going to say this: Do not post off-topic comments about the forum or its members. If you have a problem with a post, send me a private message. Any such posts made publicly will be be removed.