What are you listening to now?

[Michael]

the jury is still out on the WoO 27 duos (which btw were recorded for violin and 'cello as well). Henle has just published this Urtextausgabe http://www.henle.de/index.cfm?lang=de&open=14&hn=974

But the weren't included in the DGG CBE as being spurious.

The DGG CBE has some very curious omissions. I snapped it up back in 1997 because I couldn't envisage another "complete" edition coming out until 2027!
It is a beautiful edition in twenty volumes and each volume has a substantial booklet. At last I got an English translation of the lieder and secular songs!
However, for some reason they omitted Opus 4 - which is a substantial re-composition of thewind octet - this time for String Quintet. And anything that smelt the least bit spurious was completely rejected, such as the WoO27 duos mentioned above.
However, two more "complete" editions came out in 2007 - one of them at the amazing price of fifty euro (I think the low price may have been due to a few badly edited discs - mostly in the piano sonata section.) It was rough and ready but filled in a lot of blanks.
The same year, the "Brilliant" edition came out for a hundred euro. I would recommend this to anyone. It comes in two editions - an 85 disc set which contains the canon - and a 100 disc set which contains an extra 15 discs of historical performances.
Anyway, back to the clarinet and bassoon duos. The cheaper editions referred to above both feature these along with a good few other items which the DGG couldn't be bothered to include.

[Roehre]

the cheap Cascade-Amadeo Complete Beethoven:
the contents of the 87 CDs are:

-All opus numbers, except the usual opp. 41, 42, 63, 64 (as not being transcribed by Beethoven). However, lacking as well is surprisingly the pianoconcerto after the violinconcerto opus 61. The piano quartet version of opus 16 is not included, nor is Opus 104. Both should and could have been included.
Opus 114 is omitted as being virtually identical with opus 113 # 6.


-All WoO numbers,
Without WoO 16 and 17 (so no Mödlinger Tänze), but WITH Erlkönig WoO 131.
The Violinconcerto in C WoO 5 is presented in its fragmentary state, as published by Schiedermeir in his "Junge Beethoven" (1925-edition), so without anyone adding anything.
-None of the items in the Kinsky Anhang.

-Biamonti numbers 52, 66, 69, and 74

-Hess
13, 19, 29, 30, 31, 33, 36, 48, 57, 59, 61, 63, 64, 67, 68, 69, 72, 73, 74, 87, 88, 98, 107, 115, 133, 134, 210, 228, 230, 231, 237#4, 238#2, 238#4, 239#2, 243#4, 244#1, 274, 275, 276, 277.

-Additional:
6 pieces without any catalogue number whatsoever.

Quite comprehensive, but as noted with some weird omissions.

=============================

The DGG 1997 edition however is less comprehensive than the Cascade 87CD edition.

There aren't any Biamonti numbers;

Included are Hess 13, 29-31, 33, 36, 48, 64, 69, 107, 115, 133, 134, 210, 228, 230, 231, 275-277

From the WoOs are missing [WoO 16], 17, 27, 62, 131, 160, 162, 170, 199, 200, 201, 204 and 205. No Anhang works whatsoever.

From the opus numbers are missing: opus 4, Quartetversion opus 16, (41, 42, 63, 64), 104.

[Michael]

How can you locate (and arrange) so much information so quickly, Roehre? As usual, you have described the Amado/DGG editions in a nutshell.
Every so-called complete edition has its omissions. The "Brilliant" set, which I have recommended, omits the WoO 5 Violin Concerto fragment (and what a fragment!) and also the WoO 6 Rondo for piano and orchestra. But it also includes a number of odd items (which I can't remember ) which do not feature in any of the two other sets.

Anyway, back to the topic. Today I am listening to the Bach Orchestral Suites. The performances are not HIP, but Johann Sebastian was, man!

[Chris]

In general, I have it found it more satisfying to build my collection from individual purchases than purchase a complete edition. But I do have five of the volumes from the DG complete edition, since that is the only way to get some works or they were just the best recordings anyway. I have:

Vol. 3: Orchestral Works/Stage Works (I have most of this music on other CDs, but it does include WoO 2b and Hess 15, which I could never find on any individual recordings, though Gardiner's recording of Leonore I believe incorporates WoO 2b)

Vol. 6: Piano Works (I have most of this music on other CDs as well, but some of the little pieces, Waltzes and such, seemingly cannot be found outside of a complete edition)

Vol. 14: Misc. Chamber Works (Lots of great stuff collected here, including the wonderful piano quartets, which for some reason no one seems to care about)

Vol. 16: Lieder (Wonderful recordings in this volume)

Vol. 18: Secular Vocal Works (A lot of nice pieces collected here)

I also have a boxset of the Folksong Arrangements that is not from the Complete Beethoven Edition, but contains exactly the same recordings as Vol. 17, and I absolutely love this one.

I think the last time I checked I have all of the pieces contained in the DG Complete Beethoven Edition except for Hess 31 and Hess 32.

[Michael]

In general, I have it found it more satisfying to build my collection from individual purchases than purchase a complete edition. But I do have five of the volumes from the DG complete edition, since that is the only way to get some works or they were just the best recordings anyway. I have:

Vol. 3: Orchestral Works/Stage Works (I have most of this music on other CDs, but it does include WoO 2b and Hess 15, which I could never find on any individual recordings, though Gardiner's recording of Leonore I believe incorporates WoO 2b)

Vol. 6: Piano Works (I have most of this music on other CDs as well, but some of the little pieces, Waltzes and such, seemingly cannot be found outside of a complete edition)

Vol. 14: Misc. Chamber Works (Lots of great stuff collected here, including the wonderful piano quartets, which for some reason no one seems to care about)

Vol. 16: Lieder (Wonderful recordings in this volume)

Vol. 18: Secular Vocal Works (A lot of nice pieces collected here)

I also have a boxset of the Folksong Arrangements that is not from the Complete Beethoven Edition, but contains exactly the same recordings as Vol. 17, and I absolutely love this one.

I think the last time I checked I have all of the pieces contained in the DG Complete Beethoven Edition except for Hess 31 and Hess 32.

Long before I bought any of the three complete editions, I had made my own painstaking collection of over eighty per cent. of Beethoven's output. Very little of this was duplicated in the box sets (performer-wise) so I felt it was worthwhile getting them.
For a while, I was downloading pieces from the Unheard Beethoven Site but it is an endless task. Willy Hess was inclined to catalogue every little scrap he encountered - even an ink blob would be given a Hess number. There are one or two pieces in the Cascade edition which are precisely two seconds long!
I think you have done very well, Chris. I may be wrong but I think Hess 31 may also be included with the organ music. Hess 32 is the original version of Opus 18 No 1 and, I think, is only included in the DGG. Well worth hearing for the differences between it and the final version.

[Roehre]

.... Willy Hess was inclined to catalogue every little scrap he encountered - even an ink blob would be given a Hess number. There are one or two pieces in the Cascade edition which are precisely two seconds long!....

Biamonti has given any ink blot of Beethoven's which is to be found on music paper an own number so to speak, but that is not the case with Hess.
The Hess catalogue only consists of works which Hess considered to be missing in the Beethoven Gesamtausgabe and which were not planned to be included in the Neue Beethoven Ausgabe either.
This implies that a work which got a Hess-number must be playable as it stands (therefore the oboe concerto is included, though sofar it hasn't emerged somewhere), though some are in need for editing or completion (like the Romance Cantabile Hess 13).
The exclamations of Beethoven's which can be found in WoO 205 are lasting between 2 and 7 seconds IIRC, which is short even by Anton Webern's standards , but these ARE complete Beethoven works

[Chris]

Hess 32 is the original version of Opus 18 No 1 and, I think, is only included in the DGG. Well worth hearing for the differences between it and the final version.

Ah, I didn't realize that. I may try to snag that Early String Quartets volume if I see it at a reasonable price.

[Roehre]

Today:

Webern:
Piano quintet M.118 (1907)

Shostakovich:
Columbus op.23: Overture (an LP) and Finale (R3 CotW)

Keuris:
Symphony in D (1995)
Michelangelo songs (1990)

Hamburg:
The wild waters that roar (2004)

[Michael]

Biamonti has given any ink blot of Beethoven's which is to be found on music paper an own number so to speak, but that is not the case with Hess.
The Hess catalogue only consists of works which Hess considered to be missing in the Beethoven Gesamtausgabe and which were not planned to be included in the Neue Beethoven Ausgabe either.
This implies that a work which got a Hess-number must be playable as it stands (therefore the oboe concerto is included, though sofar it hasn't emerged somewhere), though some are in need for editing or completion (like the Romance Cantabile Hess 13).
The exclamations of Beethoven's which can be found in WoO 205 are lasting between 2 and 7 seconds IIRC, which is short even by Anton Webern's standards , but these ARE complete Beethoven works

I suppose it depends on what you would describe as a "work". I'm sure Beethoven would be surprised to find us poring over every little squiggle he made. He actually did try to bring out a complete edition of his works during his lifetime.
Of course, without Hess we would be missing a very great deal of Beethoven's work. He did trawl through the composer's letters in search of canons and other bits and pieces but who's complaining? I might sound like I am but I'm not really.

[Roehre]

Ah, I didn't realize that. I may try to snag that Early String Quartets volume if I see it at a reasonable price.

chris, perhaps you should google "Forgotten: Monument 01.08.06" for a CD with a host of not or hardly previously recorded works for string quartet.
IMO a treasure trove.

[Chris]

chris, perhaps you should google "Forgotten: Monument 01.08.06" for a CD with a host of not or hardly previously recorded works for string quartet.
IMO a treasure trove.

Wow, you sure know how to find the gems. Thanks!

[Megan]

Such as Ach Ja, die Neu (Och Aye, the Noo) ?

Aye, an yer no awa tae bide awa.

[Megan]

Mendelssohn's Octet op.20

Berlioz Romeo & Juliet.

[Megan]

This afternoon's listening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y6frr

[Michael]

chris, perhaps you should google "Forgotten: Monument 01.08.06" for a CD with a host of not or hardly previously recorded works for string quartet.
IMO a treasure trove.

Echoing Chris, where DO you find these things!