Freedom in Musical Form

[Peter]

Well, back to sex then. Here's a little quote for you from my recent reading of back issues of The Bruckner Journal (V2, No. 3, 11/1998) :

"Bruckner's music presents us with plateaus [plateaux, surely?] of intensity rather than orgasmic releases. His method of breaking off [coitus interruptus? My addition], replacing, then reinstating is not the typical tonal process of tension and relaxation."

What were we saying about Beethoven's Ninth? I've forgotten.

Comments such as these are simply analogies, not what the composer was intending - in our sexually obsessed society, everything is analysed in such terms. You might equally relate the Bruckner comments to the excitement of going on a special trip, only to be let down by cancellation.
As to your sudden memory loss re. Beethoven's 9th, surely you need only scroll back through the thread?

[The Dude]

Well, back to sex then. Here's a little quote for you from my recent reading of back issues of The Bruckner Journal (V2, No. 3, 11/1998) :

"Bruckner's music presents us with plateaus [plateaux, surely?] of intensity rather than orgasmic releases. His method of breaking off [coitus interruptus? My addition], replacing, then reinstating is not the typical tonal process of tension and relaxation."

What were we saying about Beethoven's Ninth? I've forgotten.

Isn't it better to put sex into practice instead of reading about it relation to music? Those who can do, and those who can't read about it...!!

[Sorrano]

Isn't it better to put sex into practice instead of reading about it relation to music? Those who can do, and those who can't read about it...!!

But if you can do both and at the same time.....

[The Dude]

Go on... I'm listening.

[The Dude]

This is for the blogger who enjoys reading about sex:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...terruptus.html

Go on and read it...you know you want to!! If you prefer sex in your music then I recommend the closing bars of the 1st movement of Tchaikovsky's "Manfred" Symphony!

[Quijote]

This is for the blogger who enjoys reading about sex:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...terruptus.html

Go on and read it...you know you want to!! If you prefer sex in your music then I recommend the closing bars of the 1st movement of Tchaikovsky's "Manfred" Symphony!

Well, Dandy dapper boy-about-town (see the Webster definition of "Dude" elsewhere on this forum), it has to be said that reading is a skill, and that skills can be learnt (I hope). When did I say that I enjoy reading about sex? I was simply reporting that many a 19th-century (and 20th !) commentator has linked the sexual with music. But reading (like listening to certain musics) takes time and effort. Patience is the key.

[Quijote]

[...]
As to your sudden memory loss re. Beethoven's 9th, surely you need only scroll back through the thread?

Dear Head, my posting employs a technique known as "rhetoric". My question was, clearly, a device intended to prompt other posters to (possibly violent) action. It failed.

[Quijote]

As to likening the coda and peroration of the first movement of B's Ninth to cancelled trips to Hastings (or Brighton), I think you are projecting a Sterba-like obsession with ... [Internet connection broken at this point]

[Peter]

As to likening the coda and peroration of the first movement of B's Ninth to cancelled trips to Hastings (or Brighton), I think you are projecting a Sterba-like obsession with ... [Internet connection broken at this point]

Oh dear these late night postings are playing havoc with your train of thought Philip! My remarks were in relation to Bruckner (I didn't mention Beethoven's 9th) and were intended to be just as absurd as McClary's.

[Peter]

Dear Head, my posting employs a technique known as "rhetoric". My question was, clearly, a device intended to prompt other posters to (possibly violent) action. It failed.

Well for over a decade on this forum I have tried all sorts of devices myself to prompt debate - we have to accept with grace when the bait isn't taken up. One of the most interesting ones was a monthly posting of an mp3 of rare Beethoven works, but after a long trial we ceased doing this because the response was always limited.

[Ed C]

Well for over a decade on this forum I have tried all sorts of devices myself to prompt debate - we have to accept with grace when the bait isn't taken up.

I know the feeling. The fact is most people prefer to passively enjoy reading and not responding (I admit I lurked on this forum for 2 or 3 years before finally "revealing myself"). It's probably better for the blood-pressure, tho, haha.

[The Dude]

Same here, Ed. I've read it for quite a while, along with 1 other music forum - of which I am now an active member. That's why I know what's gone down in this forum and why I'll quickly become bored if it recurs. I may even become bored before then........

[Ed C]

Don't worry, I'll try to keep it interesting. Unless I get bored before you do of course.

No really, stick around and ignore trolling posts - you know, like I haven't been doing.

[The Dude]

Ask not for whom the Dill trolls - it trolls for thee!!!

[Peter]

Part of the problem is postings that are completely irrelevant to the topic! Back to Musical form please and surely the greatest freedom to the composer is Variation form of which Beethoven was a natural master - not surprisingly given his renowned ability at improvisation.