That Furtwangler movie, "Taking Sides'

[GregMitch]

Got it out of the library at Ed's suggestion yesterday and watched -- disappointed. Harvey Keitel pretty terrrible (but don't worry, he didn't play the great conductor!). Good moral issues raised by awkward, not terrible but should have been much better. Anyone else see it?

[Ed C]

Oh sorry about leading you astray Greg - my wife was underwhelmed as well to be honest. I was moved tho and it did induce some discussion afterwards between us. Stellan Skarsgard (sp?) was good at capturing Furt's inability to articulate himself I thought. I believe a BBC interviewer mistook him for an imbecile...

[jamesofedinburgh]

I know the story and may watch the film someday. I think Furtwangler was a wonderful conductor, his Ninth is marvellous and a recording of the Eroica (from Switzerland in the 1950s) is equally fine. The funeral march - the fugato episode which breaks down in wailing! - these are great moments.

I do have a problem with him though, and it is the Nazi link. I had a CD recorded in 1942, Furtwangler condugin and with Dr Goebbels present, and I put it on and took it off within 10 seconds. I felt sick - the presence of evil was very strong. It may just be an over-heated imagination, make of it what you will, but the sense that the crowd noises at the start (a live recording) included Gobbels coughing made me ill.

I think Furtwangler was a bit of an innocent politically, he was too civilised to believe that the Nazis could do what they said they would do. As far as I am aware, he coped with dignity and tried to protect people. However, it would have been far better had he simply left the country before the war.

On the topic of Goebbels, I recently read a biography of him. He loved music and had a decent understanding of it. He kept a diary and frequently referred to music in it - for example, he wrote of hearing Opus 131 'Like a god speaking....what is there left to say after this?' (this when he was about 20 years old)

This passage made me feel very sick, because obviously listening to and (as far as I can tell) loving and appreciating such music does not prevent a man becoming extremely evil. (To me, he was the worst of the Nazis, because the most intelligent - he ought to have known, and done, better.)

It is also interesting because I have the sense that great music opens a door and asks you to choose. You can, faced with the awesome and overwhelming feelings and intuitions called up by such music, go to 'the dark side' or 'the light side' (shades of the Star Wars thread here!). In this instance, Goebbels clearly went to the dark side.

[Peter]

This of course raises many issues. Obviously appreciation of great art and intelligence are not the perogative of the good as history amply demonstrates - how is it that a mind can appreciate Beethoven or Michelangelo and yet at the same time commit the foulest deeds the human mind can conceive? We then have the problem of the legacy of great musicians such as Karajan, Richard Strauss and Elisabeth Schwarzkopf (who willingly joined the Nazi party) - largely exonerated by time, but is this right? I make no judgement here, but merely ask the question!

[jamesofedinburgh]

I simply cannot listen to Karajan for these extra-musical reasons.