What are you listening to now?

[Chris]

Some incomplete and/or spurious Bach organ works performed by Christopher Herrick. Notable here are the Pedal-Exercitium, BWV 598 (perhaps I should take this up to improve my organ pedaling!), the concertos BWV 571 and BWV 597, the trio BWV 584, along with several very nice chorale preludes and other pieces.

[Bonn1827]

i-Tunes is really a horrible program for trying to set in order tracks of multi-movement works. I had been trying to organize some MP3's of Wagner's complete operas which resulted in a total disaster. After than I moved over to the Zune MP3 player which was a little better. Good luck in your MP3 endeavors!

Sorrano, I've just abandoned the I-Pod transfer after 4 full days at the computer. Everything is scrambled, some works have only 1 track. I'll buy a wallet and put my CDs in that and take my old Walkman. Meanwhile, I have a life and can't sit at a computer all day. My daughter just got an early, expensive birthday present!!

[Peter]

I don't know them but I must give them a listen some time, thank you for mentioning them. I think the Pathetique is a strange symphony - after Beethoven, it can appear histrionic - but perhaps that is its point. The apparent lack of heroism and hyper-emotionalism conceals a sort of paradoxical stoicism, the open expression of hopelessness being a real taboo in western society so it was brave to 'take this to the limit' - I think Hans Keller made this point somewhere or other.

And of course it has some very fine tunes! and the orchestration is good.

The first 2 symphonies, especially I think no.2 are well worth getting to know. Of the later ones I think the 4th symphony is Tchaikovsky's finest, especially the first movement - I have reservations about the finale which strikes me as bombastic - if proof were needed that T was a manic-depressive, no further evidence would be needed than symphony no.4!

[Bonn1827]

It doesn't matter if composers were manic-depressive, or anything else for that matter. We love them!! (The most interesting people ARE often the ones who have the emotional problems and "issues", from my experience, and I'm usually able to navigate my way around this if they're worth it. Sometimes not so successfully!) I was discussing this recently with a sister who is a clinical psychologist and we were trying to figure out what was the nexus between those two things.)

At the moment I'm listening to Brahms, Symphony No. 4 mit der Wien Philharmoniker/Carlos Kleiber. It is sheer ecstasy and has driven me out of my bed..!!! That soaring 1st movement drives me to despair, ecstasy, elation and depression and back again!! The final movement is the tour de force - the ultimate Brahmsian symphonic triumph!!

[Sorrano]

This morning:

Khachaturian: Suite from Masquerade

Brahms: 1st movement of the Piano Trio No. 2

[jamesofedinburgh]

The first 2 symphonies, especially I think no.2 are well worth getting to know. Of the later ones I think the 4th symphony is Tchaikovsky's finest, especially the first movement - I have reservations about the finale which strikes me as bombastic - if proof were needed that T was a manic-depressive, no further evidence would be needed than symphony no.4!

Many thoughtful listeners have found that movement bombastic but I feel completely unable to comment as I cannot recall it. As to manic depression, well, if Tchaikovsky 'had it' then I suppose it may be apparent in his music. I just don't know the biography that well aside from the obvious - married, breakdown, discovered he was homosexual, had a wealthy patroness - but that's as far as it goes for me, I'm afraid. So I shall read up on him this year and go through the symphonies.

[jamesofedinburgh]

It doesn't matter if composers were manic-depressive, or anything else for that matter. We love them!! (The most interesting people ARE often the ones who have the emotional problems and "issues", from my experience, and I'm usually able to navigate my way around this if they're worth it. Sometimes not so successfully!) I was discussing this recently with a sister who is a clinical psychologist and we were trying to figure out what was the nexus between those two things.)

At the moment I'm listening to Brahms, Symphony No. 4 mit der Wien Philharmoniker/Carlos Kleiber. It is sheer ecstasy and has driven me out of my bed..!!! That soaring 1st movement drives me to despair, ecstasy, elation and depression and back again!! The final movement is the tour de force - the ultimate Brahmsian symphonic triumph!!

The Kleiber recording is tremendous, with superb control of tempo throughout. I have always felt it is the best of Brahms although I like the intermezzi (Opus 116 et seq) some of which I used to play.

[Peter]

Many thoughtful listeners have found that movement bombastic but I feel completely unable to comment as I cannot recall it. As to manic depression, well, if Tchaikovsky 'had it' then I suppose it may be apparent in his music. I just don't know the biography that well aside from the obvious - married, breakdown, discovered he was homosexual, had a wealthy patroness - but that's as far as it goes for me, I'm afraid. So I shall read up on him this year and go through the symphonies.

I find him an endlessly fascinating character, I think for the reasons Bonn1827 says - emotional instability does tend to produce interesting people! The Von Meck relationship itself is so unique. I think without doubt Tchaikovsky's music is autobiographical, more so than most composers of the time - this can be a flaw because his neurotic tendencies cand lead to rather hysterical outbursts which I think mar some of the music.

Tchaikovsky surely has to be the most nomadic of all 19th century composers - take a look at this page just to see the extent of his travels.
http://www.tchaikovsky-research.net/...ces/index.html

[Bonn1827]

This is incredible, Peter!!! The man must have been on the move constantly. And yet his music has its own "eastern" flavour which does not seem to me to be hugely influenced by Bach, Beethoven or Mozart. Perhaps somebody could enlighten me about this.

[Peter]

This is incredible, Peter!!! The man must have been on the move constantly. And yet his music has its own "eastern" flavour which does not seem to me to be hugely influenced by Bach, Beethoven or Mozart. Perhaps somebody could enlighten me about this.

Funny you should say that, but he was criticised in his time for being too western! Actually I think you're right and the reason is that his music is imbued with Russian and Ukranian folk melody.

[Sorrano]

Many thoughtful listeners have found that movement bombastic but I feel completely unable to comment as I cannot recall it. As to manic depression, well, if Tchaikovsky 'had it' then I suppose it may be apparent in his music. I just don't know the biography that well aside from the obvious - married, breakdown, discovered he was homosexual, had a wealthy patroness - but that's as far as it goes for me, I'm afraid. So I shall read up on him this year and go through the symphonies.

Personally, I rather like the bombastic outbursts in the music. This is one of the elements that give the music the personality that identifies it specifically with Tchaikovsky. There are similar, if not a bit more subtle, moments in the music of Beethoven, i.e., the sudden fsorzandos (sorry about the spelling on that one), etc. Is not Beethoven's music somewhat autobiographical, as well?

[Sorrano]

On topic:

Pierne's Piano Concerto in C Minor (is anyone very familiar with his music?)

[Chris]

Some Mozart works played on the organ by Hans Fagius. Particularly notable here are the rarely heard fugues K 153 and K 154.

[jamesofedinburgh]

Personally, I rather like the bombastic outbursts in the music. This is one of the elements that give the music the personality that identifies it specifically with Tchaikovsky. There are similar, if not a bit more subtle, moments in the music of Beethoven, i.e., the sudden fsorzandos (sorry about the spelling on that one), etc. Is not Beethoven's music somewhat autobiographical, as well?

Yes, I would agree with you, come to think of it I can recall some of these passages in my internal memory. I think there is an interesting angle here, in that (at least in the UK) until the death of Lady Diana in 1997 public displays of emotion were very limited. Then, at her untimely death, the pendulum went the other way and then some, and this sort of attitude has come to pervade the culture. Since then, it seems to me that UK 'pop culture' is more and more preoccupied with such outpourings of emotion and other examples of ersatz authenticity in the form of endless reality television shows. - So, in such a climate of emotional overstatement, I think Tchaikovsky would find his element and would in fact appear rather restrained.

Beethoven is certainly autobiographical. Personally I think all musicians and artists are autobiographical - it simply is harder to spot with some than with others. Dante and Beatrice is obvious, but the dark lady of the sonnets, who was she? - I think limited factual knowledge of Shakespeare is the only thing that prevents scholars writing about his muse whom I suspect did exist. One does not write love poetry, no matter how subtle and sophisticated (and it doesn't get any better aside perhaps from 'To His Coy Mistress' and a few bits of Donne) without having been struck by what the Italians call 'il fulmine' (the thunderbolt).

[Peter]

Personally, I rather like the bombastic outbursts in the music. This is one of the elements that give the music the personality that identifies it specifically with Tchaikovsky. There are similar, if not a bit more subtle, moments in the music of Beethoven, i.e., the sudden fsorzandos (sorry about the spelling on that one), etc. Is not Beethoven's music somewhat autobiographical, as well?

No I disagree here, I'm not referring to dynamics or accents and in anycase such things with Beethoven are always integrated within the whole and the emotional content and proportions are properly controlled as one would expect from a master of classical form. With Tchaikovsky it seems to me that he actually gets out of control at times and allows his emotions to run away with him and to me such passages sound hysterical - I do love his music, but I can see the faults in it!

I'm not sure that Beethoven's music is that autobiographical - at the height of his despair during the Heiligenstadt Testamant he wrote one of his sunniest works - the 2nd symphony.