Op.61a

[Peter]

Mp3 of the piano version of the Violin concerto is now available on the rare Beethoven page.
www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/selected.html
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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Very interesting piece and history. One question: Knowing how B was when asked to change a piece, did he acquiesce when asked
to change it to a piano concerto? A little surprising.

Joy

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Very interesting piece and history. One question: Knowing how B was when asked to change a piece, did he acquiesce when asked
to change it to a piano concerto? A little surprising.

Joy

He did it for commercial reasons!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Very interesting piece and history. One question: Knowing how B was when asked to change a piece, did he acquiesce when asked
to change it to a piano concerto? A little surprising.

Joy

May I add that from what I have rea, for Beethoven the production of arrangements was part of the business of selling compositions, as long as the original was also available. From his letters it is clear, he had little qualm about the the owners of the music producing their own arrangements. B himself made alterations and corrections to some of these efforts by other men that were then given opus numbers as B's own!

With the current concerto I think this arrangement for piano is totally feasible, providing much of the fat that this piece is encumbered with is removed - ie a general tightening of the phrasing and tempi throughout. With this recording I only really had the option of uploading the larghetto, as the outer movements are so ridiculously ponderous I would not lower the standing of this site by using them! This larghetto recording is only moderately trite and lame. Which, outside of the authentic movement, is the best one can usually expect.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-04-2001).]

[Joy]

Thanks Rod!!!

[PDG]

I always thought that unlike with other Beethoven alternative arrangements, the piano version of op.61 was composed almost simultaneously with the violin version. Weren't they published as a pair?

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
I always thought that unlike with other Beethoven alternative arrangements, the piano version of op.61 was composed almost simultaneously with the violin version. Weren't they published as a pair?

They weren't composed together, the piano version was requested after. What is more important is whether this piano version is acceptable as a composition, in the way some of B's other arrangements undoubtedly are (eg op16 for piano and strings). Don't know about everyone else, but I've never read a good word about op61a, it's certainly much better than the clarinet arrangement that had so much attention. The pianists phrasing in the mp3 is somewhat trite, as I have said, but it is clear to me that this piece can work with the piano as B arranged it if played by someone who knows what they are doing, and the cadenzas are great. On authentic instruments the duet with the timpani would sound especially fantastic, and I don't know why there is no authentic version available on CD for this point alone.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Don't know about everyone else, but I've never read a good word about op61a, it's certainly much better than the clarinet arrangement that had so much attention. The pianists phrasing in the mp3 is somewhat trite, as I have said, but it is clear to me that this piece can work with the piano as B arranged it if played by someone who knows what they are doing, and the cadenzas are great. On authentic instruments the duet with the timpani would sound especially fantastic, and I don't know why there is no authentic version available on CD for this point alone.

I've never heard a good word about it either. I don't think anyone would claim that the piano version was preferable to the original. The best thing is undoubtedly those cadenzas which work very well in an arrangement for Violin and timpani - far preferable in my view to anything offered by Kreisler or Joachim.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I've never heard a good word about it either. I don't think anyone would claim that the piano version was preferable to the original.

The original should always be the best. But B's genuine arrangements are all good stuff, and I put the blame for lack of interest in 61a down to the traditionally lame interpretation of the original work.

Originally posted by Peter:

The best thing is undoubtedly those cadenzas which work very well in an arrangement for Violin and timpani - far preferable in my view to anything offered by Kreisler or Joachim.

Yes, we've agreed on this before. This cadenza is by far the best for the violin from my experience.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

Originally posted by PDG:
I always thought that unlike with other Beethoven alternative arrangements, the piano version of op.61 was composed almost simultaneously with the violin version. Weren't they published as a pair?

Ah, a momentary lapse on my part; it's the fact that both versions were published together as a pair in Vienna (1808) that made me think they'd been written almost simultaneously.