Today's equivalent to Beethoven

[Bonn1827]

And you're an American!! Allen is trying to show the link between his beloved New York and the work of the great American composers. It IS a deliberate "distraction" - to draw attention to his love of that oeuvre.

[Ed C]

...Well I will be bold and possibly-less-than-rigourous here and give a candidate - Trent Reznor. In my original blog post I give reasons why Trent seems to have the best chance.
...

My choice, Trent Reznor, for "today's Beethoven" (based on my own biased criteria) just won a Golden Globe award.

[Bonn1827]

Got it in one, as they say in golf. The people in charge of composition in conservatories are talentless however much technical proficiency they may possess. The most talented (and lucky) may go into film music though that is going to go the way of electronic music production due to this being cheaper. (Still, they can write the programs.) It is institutionally impossible to create and sustain a living musical culture of serious music. I think it died after the second world war.

Furthermore, Beethoven was a very boisterous man, and at other times a very angry man, and at other times very depressed....he would almost certainly have been psychiatrised by some imbecile dispensing pills. Social workers would have said 'Put that manuscript down and empty your chamber pot'.

As to the wonderful stories of Beethoven frightening the cows in a farmer's field by bellowing his music on long walks - they would have filed a report with the police, complained of property trespassing, ridden their pathetic little sense of 'entitlement' to make sure that it didn't happen again or, indeed, ever.

No - we are in a world where most everyone is terrified to stand out as different because if you cannot cope with the world, or are seen to be unable to do so, you either lose your work and property, or you become the prey of the professionals (and sometimes worse the 'well wishers') who are supposed to 'make you better'.

Such is life! Perhaps someday the world will say no to Prozac, people will be able to accept that life is fluctuation rather than some illusion of perpetual stability (ending in death! rather a bummer that) and who knows creativity will flourish.

Where it has flourished in the past century is in the popular arts - where, as you state, the critics have much less influence. I don't think 'Sympathy for the Devil' is the equal of a Beethoven symphony (!), however, I think the song is superior to almost all of the avant garde music produced in the 1960s. They caught something there - mood, emotion, what have you - and created a musical means to express it. Same applies to 'American Pie' or 'Stairway to Heaven' - magnificent within their sphere, and far superior to the sterile conservatory crap that (until recently) was the staple of Arts Council commissions.

(Although, in the case of the latter 2 songs, they are perhaps heard a tad too much

What is it you're saying about being "prey of the professionals", JoE? Who else can help those in need if "the professionals" cannot? I don't see a lot of caring in the general community, nor really any demonstrated sense of a cohesive society, so what is the alternative? (Well, we've seen some caring in Australia with the Queensland floods, but this is an emergency. Under more "normal" circumstances people remain barricaded behind their front doors and fences.) I take your point, though, about society wanting to smooth out the rough edges on "difference". I've always admired people for their "difference", but I acknowledge that not everyone is so disposed. Perhaps they perceive it as threatening. But some mentally unstable people ARE threatening and there's nothing we can do about that fact, except feel sorry for them if they can't take any responsbility - that, and steer clear!!

Beethoven was "different" to be sure. But isn't that why we love him so much?

[jamesofedinburgh]

I'm not suggesting that professional intervention is entirely worthless and it is pretty much as you say - no one else will help, so they have to pick up the pieces. However, I've seen a lot of evidence that mental health services, social services and so forth can do as much harm as good - perhaps more on occasion.

It's part and parcel of the world - rationalism triumphs, and you have to be able to cope with this, or devil take the hindmost.

[Bonn1827]

Agreed about some aspects causing "more harm than good". Well-intentioned, text-book driven psycho-babble from 'experts' with little common sense. Yes. My sister, a psychologist, often says, 'I'd like you to come and talk to some of my clients as they need good horse-sense advice.' I tell her, I'm sorry, but I'm running a handicap in the next daily double!!

[jamesofedinburgh]

Your sister is a psychologist. This is very different from psychiatry (sorry I know you know this). The psychiatrists, at least in Europe and the UK and of course America, have all the power - to give certain types of medication, to section people, to give treatments such as ECT and (god help the patients in the past) lobotomies. Fortunately psychologists cannot possibly do such mischief and instead can obey the first commandment of a healer - 'Do no harm'.

Psychiatry is in thrall to the drugs companies and to a particular approach to mental illness. This is codified in the DSM IV or the ICD 10. There are many problems with this, not least how do you classify an illness?

Case in point - until about 1960 or so, homosexuality was actually a registered, bona fide, diagnosable mental illness. Then suddenly the law changed on its criminal nature and, hey presto, it ceased to be an illness - which is odd in that the process is supposed to be 'scientific'. More a case of knowing which way the wind blows if you ask me.

Which is not to say that there aren't people in need of some of these treatments (well, not lobotomies) at some times and that some good does not ever come of this.

[DavidO]

Well I wasn't comparing it to hundreds of years ago and even if I were I wouldn't say people are 'smarter than they have ever been' or we would never have had such things as the Renaissance, the Industrial revolution or the Ancient empires. The average IQ level of the human species doesn't change, nor unfortunately does human nature, regardless of how we may like to think of ourselves as well educated, backed up by over inflated grades, easier exams and pointless degrees.

Richard Mitchell (The Underground Grammarian) wrote a great little book about just what people have ostensibly acquired intellectually beyond their ancient predecessors in "The Gift of Fire." Of course, before plunging into his discussion, he defines his terms: education, knowledge, wisdom, literacy.