did Bach and Handel ever meet?

[Preston]

Just curious?

[Chris]

No, they never did. Supposedly Bach tried to meet Handel a couple of times, but it never came together.

[Peter]

In 1719 Bach did travel to Halle in the hope of a meeting, but Handel had left the day before. Again in 1729, when Handel was once more in his native city, Bach sent his son Wilhelm Friedemann Bach to invite Handel to Leipzig, but Handel was unable (unwilling?!)to make the journey.

[Preston]

Reminds me of Beethoven and Mozart. They came close to meeting each other, yet, apparently never did, according to the accounts.

What I find astonishing is Bach was hardly known as the great composer he is today?!

Maybe, Handel was unable, though you say unwilling, too. Which if he was unwilling, well that shocks me.

Seeing as Bach apparently heard Handel's, did Handel ever hear any of Bach's works? Imagine if Handel heard the greatest works of Bach, then said his was unable because he was unwilling!? That would be awkward.

Also, did Bach ever meet any other great composers? I imagine he did, it is just I wonder who.

[Peter]

Reminds me of Beethoven and Mozart. They came close to meeting each other, yet, apparently never did, according to the accounts.

What I find astonishing is Bach was hardly known as the great composer he is today?!

Maybe, Handel was unable, though you say unwilling, too. Which if he was unwilling, well that shocks me.

Seeing as Bach apparently heard Handel's, did Handel ever hear any of Bach's works? Imagine if Handel heard the greatest works of Bach, then said his was unable because he was unwilling!? That would be awkward.

Also, did Bach ever meet any other great composers? I imagine he did, it is just I wonder who.

I meant possibly unwilling to put himself out if he knew Bach was coming the next day - perhaps he didn't know. Bach wasn't as appreciated as he is now and it was largely down to Mendelssohn that he is. However he was appreciated among musicians and Beethoven was fortunate as a young man having the enlightened Neefe as his teacher who introduced him to the music of Bach in Bonn.

There is another strange coincidence with Bach and Handel - they were both operated on (unsuccessfully) by the same eye surgeon, John Taylor.

[Preston]

Bach wasn't as appreciated as he is now...

Yes. Though, I wonder how this could be- with the substantial body of works he wrote, and the brilliant musician he was?

...it was largely down to Mendelssohn that he is.

How so?

[Hofrat]

How about a possible meeting between Beethoven and Thomas Jefferson?? According to his travel journals, Jefferson was in the Electorate palace in Bonn on Friday morning the 4th of April 1788, which was the same time of the rehearsals of the court orchesta.

[Preston]

How about a possible meeting between Beethoven and Thomas Jefferson?? According to his travel journals, Jefferson was in the Electorate palace in Bonn on Friday morning the 4th of April 1788, which was the same time of the rehearsals of the court orchesta.

Are you being frank or kidding, ? That would be interesting, if true.

[Hofrat]

I am not kidding. Jefferson (then the US ambassador to France) and Beethoven might have met, or their paths may have crossed on 4 April 1788 in Bonn. Jefferson took great interest in the market place and ate breakfast at the tavern called Hof von England which is situated near the palace. In a letter to a friend of 19 June 1788, Jefferson highly recommended staying in the Hof von England tavern and visiting the Electorate palace. That puts Beethoven and Jefferson in the same building at the same time.

[Peter]

I am not kidding. Jefferson (then the US ambassador to France) and Beethoven might have met, or their paths may have crossed on 4 April 1788 in Bonn. Jefferson took great interest in the market place and ate breakfast at the tavern called Hof von England which is situated near the palace. In a letter to a friend of 19 June 1788, Jefferson highly recommended staying in the Hof von England tavern and visiting the Electorate palace. That puts Beethoven and Jefferson in the same building at the same time.

In the same town, but they wouldn't have been formerly introduced and neither make reference to it after they had achieved fame. The meeting with Haydn and Nelson in Sept 1800 of course is well documented.

[Hofrat]

Thomas Jefferson was an accomplished violinist. If he was given a tour of the palace, he might have heard the orchestra rehearse. Being a musician himself, he might have asked to sit in on the rehearsal. That would put the two men in the same room at the same time. Of course this is all conjecture, but it is mind boggling to learn that the man who wrote "all men are created equal" and the man who would put to music "all men shall be brothers" were within a few meters of each other one day in 1788.

[Roehre]

Thomas Jefferson was an accomplished violinist. If he was given a tour of the palace, he might have heard the orchestra rehearse. Being a musician himself, he might have asked to sit in on the rehearsal. That would put the two men in the same room at the same time. Of course this is all conjecture, but it is mind boggling to learn that the man who wrote "all men are created equal" and the man who would put to music "all men shall be brothers" were within a few meters of each other one day in 1788.

Very intriguing indeed.
A pity nowhere in his correspondence (the surviving Briefe that is) Beethoven mentions Jefferson. As far as I can see Jefferson isn't mentioned anywhere in his Konversationshefte either (but the indices to the 11 volumes show some discrepancies I'm afraid).

[Hofrat]

Let us remember that Jefferson was only an ambassador at the time of his visit in Bonn (4 April 1788) and this was not an official visit, rather a spontaneous and unannounced visit by a diplomat who had some time on his hands. Beethoven was but a lad of 17 years. So, there would not be any conversation books at this time.

[Roehre]

Let us remember that Jefferson was only an ambassador at the time of his visit in Bonn (4 April 1788) and this was not an official visit, rather a spontaneous and unannounced visit by a diplomat who had some time on his hands. Beethoven was but a lad of 17 years. So, there would not be any conversation books at this time.

Hofrat, IF they have been at the same place at the same time, Beethoven was an unimportant orchestral musician annex humble servant, and Jefferson already (!) an ambassador.
My mentioning of the conversation booklets was meant to illustrate that Jefferson wasn't even mentioned in the last ten years of Beethoven's live even once. By then Jefferson had served his terms as American President already (1801-1809) and therefore was certainly not an unknown politician. It is inconceivable that the fervent newspaper reader Beethoven wouldn't have known about this. But it didn't ring any bells....

[Peter]

Hofrat, IF they have been at the same place at the same time, Beethoven was an unimportant orchestral musician annex humble servant, and Jefferson already (!) an ambassador.
My mentioning of the conversation booklets was meant to illustrate that Jefferson wasn't even mentioned in the last ten years of Beethoven's live even once. By then Jefferson had served his terms as American President already (1801-1809) and therefore was certainly not an unknown politician. It is inconceivable that the fervent newspaper reader Beethoven wouldn't have known about this. But it didn't ring any bells....

Yes I was thinking along the same lines but it is of course likely that both forgot what would have seemed at the time nothing out of the ordinary. Jefferson was probably completely unaware in later life that the famous Beethoven was amongst those musicians on his brief visit to Bonn and likewise Beethoven may not even have known the name of yet another foreign dignantry even if he did set eyes on him.