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The State of Music Teaching

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    The State of Music Teaching

    Peter, I'm not at all surprised that your Grade V (piano?) student didn't know anything about Elgar or Bach. Your comments raise some serious issues:

    Firstly, the school approach to music nowadays is CRASH, BANG. Sadly, these are the frequent sounds which emanate from most comprehensive high school music departments, in my experience. The private system would be more "in tune" (pardon the pun) with the requirements for serious study, I suggest to you, but if parents aren't themselves educated then they wouldn't necessarily question the course content.

    Secondly, many parents put their children into private schools to give them a social advantage (which I'm not opposed to, BTW) and learning a musical instrument is often considered an additional refinement, that is all.

    Thirdly, the vocational orientation of courses now on offer at most universities (well, this is how it is in Australia at least) foster the notion that a good grounding in culture-related subjects is surplus to requirements!! It's the utilitarianism thing gone mad.

    Also, my own experience with a systemic syllabus in learning an instrument, such as Australian Music Examinations Board, paradoxically did not foster a love of classical music. I started learning at 35 and already had a huge, in-depth knowledge of music and I often said to my teacher/s that there was nothing about the syllabus which actually encouraged a love of music. There were typically unfortunate responses to my observations but, years later, I stand behind this. The viva voce sections, for example, encouraged glib responses to complex issues; no student was required to show evidence of further musical engagement beyond weekly lessons; the broad strokes painted over many stylistic musical periods could be rote learned by youngsters without real engagement; many teachers had scant knowledge themselves; the isolation of popular culture from the syllabus was counter intuitive and no point of reference was established to compare different kinds of music in order to show the profundity of western art music.

    Lastly, there is the whole process of preparing students for examinations which will probably send only a very, very few into the conservatory. The rest who don't make it there (and this is desirable, since there is already inherent difficulty in pursuing a professional career) aren't left with an intrinsic love of music, just a piece of paper and, hopefully, some skills they will go on to use in their daily lives.

    These comments are sure to engender controversy as they did when I was an outspoken student!!
    Last edited by Bonn1827; Yesterday at 11:37 PM. Reason: Peter Piper picked a peck of picked peppers! (So they say)
    Bonn1827 is offline Reply With Quote

    #2
    Hmm. Before I respond, I have a question I would like to ask, and its response may throw light on some of the ideological assumptions that inform Bonn's posting above.

    How would you go about fostering a love of classical music?

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      #3
      We referred to private education - I teach piano privately myself and was lucky enough to be privately educated myself, but am surprised at the poor level of general knowledge by those pupils of mine who do go to private school. My grade 5 pupil (aged 14) says they do music at school and are studying Indie music. I wouldn't mind if she had some basics of classical music: I asked what she knew about Beethoven - the answer was nothing, not even the usual response that he was deaf! As to the number of symphonies he had written, the word symphony itself met with utter confusion as though it were Chinese, and it wouldn't surprise me if she thought Beethoven was Chinese! I tried to introduce a little context into the discussions and mentioned the Enlightenment which met with the unenlightened response 'is that when they invented science'?

      The point is I am supposed to be teaching piano not music history, yet it is expected (rightly in my view) that they have this knowledge. In contrast there was a programme on the other night about opera in Italy and I think you can be absolutely certain that every child in Italy knows who Verdi, Rossini and Puccini are - they know how to celebrate and value their musical heritage.
      'Man know thyself'

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        #4
        Originally posted by Philip View Post
        Hmm. Before I respond, I have a question I would like to ask, and its response may throw light on some of the ideological assumptions that inform Bonn's posting above.

        How would you go about fostering a love of classical music?
        Well purely from the piano teaching point of view I try to give my pupils pieces that will obviously help them technically and musically, but also those they will enjoy. I try to give them a varied musical diet which doesn't just include classical music, but also jazz as well. Then I always encourage them to listen to as much music as possible - for example one of the pieces set for grade 5 is a piano arrangement of the finale of Haydn's 89th symphony, so I play them the original. I try to include as much background as possible within limited time, hence my foray into the Enlghtenment (mentioned in previous post). Also of course I try to get them to go beyond the notes and relate music to the other arts, literatue, film or life experiences.

        I would say however that unless it's already in a pupil it's very hard to ignite the spark, but possibly very easy to extinguish it!
        'Man know thyself'

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          #5
          I have had the same difficulties with my own students, Peter. Some of them are good at playing their instruments, but none of them really love classical music. They just don't listen to it. And if you don't love hearing it, it's pretty hard to be great at playing it. I have tried giving them CDs containing works that I really loved and that inspired me as Christmas presents, hoping that it might ignite something in them as it did me, but usually they are listened to once and promptly forgotten. I also try to use some fun music, such as rags by Joplin. I just finished teaching a student "Elite Syncopations", the response being that she was tired of all this serious classical music and wanted to do something fun :|

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            #6
            I also tried to convey my children (17 and 18 years old) a love for Classical music. My daughter I took to a concert with Mozart's works (Jupiter symphony and Requiem) which she appreciated, but at home she still listens only to popular music. The only classical piece my son really loves is Pachebel's Canon and recently also Beethoven's 2nd mov. of the 7th symphony. Right now he has to write a little essay in his highschool on the 9th symhony. I let him listen to it with simultaneously reading the score. I hope this will ignite something in him.... :-)

            Gerd

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              #7
              I must say I'm very moved by all these wonderful efforts to engender a love of music in youngsters. If you don't do it who will??

              What "ideological assumptions" would there be in my posting, Philip 2? I love music more than anything or anybody else (exception: family) and it broke my heart as a student to learn that there wasn't really a nexus created between love of music and learning an instrument. BTW, I started with the Trinity system up to Grade 4 and this wasn't any better than AMEB - in fact it was less demanding, if anything. Most good teachers know about the system's shortcomings and try to breach the gap themselves, but they are waging a losing battle because of the impoverished school music curricula. I stress this is only my experience in Australia but I make the presumption that it is probably also a problem in UK, for example. I have no idea at all of what it is like in a university.

              Point taken, Peter, about the private school system and its dubious musical outcomes. I wonder if this is syllabus-related and also part of the "utilitarian" mindset which pervades education today? The reason I made the comment about private schools is that many parents I've spoken to have said this is an important reason for sending them there - educational "values" etc. and the advantages these bring. The fact that this isn't happening might suggest that the "values" have shifted towards "competitive edge" in the marketplace. Again, very sad.

              When I taught Drama I used to make an opportunity to bring art music into the classroom all the time. Lie on the floor, eyes closed, imaginative activity - listen to Mozart. If 1 or 2 wanted to know more (and they did) this was a victory of sorts. In senior English students wrote their essays with art music going in the background. If there were any dissenters (as there sometimes were) the rest of the class would tell them to grow up!! You see, it's also all about power in the classroom and if the teacher has it he/she can do almost anything to engage the kids!! (But that's another story).
              Last edited by Bonn1827; 06-03-2010, 11:29 PM. Reason: Further thoughts

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                #8
                I, too, tried to turn my one and only son to classical music. He studied piano and reached a level where he could play the two sonatinos of Beethoven's anhang 5. Then he stopped studying. But something sunk in because I catch him whistling melodies of Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, and others. So, there is hope.
                "Is it not strange that sheep guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?"

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                  #9
                  It helps of course if a child is brought up in a musical family - by that I mean one that actually plays musical instruments to a high standard, these children definitely have a head start in their musical education - Unfortunately I wasn't brought up in such an environment and it was more a case of me educating my family to appreciate classical music! I'm always slightly jealous when I hear tales of musicians brought up surrounded by parents and siblings who all play extremely well - what a joy!
                  'Man know thyself'

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                    #10
                    Something like "the family that plays together stays together"?

                    My mother had her LMusA (piano) at 18 and gave me an intensive very early love of music, but my 3 younger female siblings didn't follow this journey. I was the only one out of 4 daughters who loved music from childhood and followed it intensely to this day. However, I rejected piano studies after 2 years, aged 8, because the nun hit me with a ruler on its side whenever I made a mistake!!

                    Two of my (professional) sisters don't actually listen to classical music at all and the other, 18 months younger than I, says she "likes all music", but I suspect the difference between us is that she can easily go weeks without listening to it whereas I have great difficulties being without music for a single day!!

                    If I could indulge myself here. My mother died in her 50's in 1984 and I distinctly remember being in the car when we took her on a little drive towards the end. A Brahms piano Sonata came on the FM car radio and she started to cry, saying "I used to play this when I was just a girl". I could see her thin fingers "playing" the melody on her lap. Some things you just don't forget...!

                    I've enjoyed the little anecdotes from you all so far!
                    Last edited by Bonn1827; 06-04-2010, 11:37 AM.

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                      #11
                      Sometimes people just need to discover this in their own way. The important thing is to give plenty of opportunity and exercise a lot of patience. The music is good enough to stand on it's own merit without needing "testimonials" of its worth. If the younger people are exposed enough to it without feeling compelled, at some point they will find that it is worth something to them.

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                        #12
                        The key thing that I have learned about classical music is that you truly have to have an ear for it. I was not raised with a musical background, in fact, my family is not musical at all, and what music they do listen to is strongly influenced by the popular culture. Though, I have forced classical on them- by taking them to concerts, talking with them about the "great musical geniuses", teaching them about the piano and other instruments, etc. I found that after taking them to concerts they felt more comfortable listening to it. Though, they still cannot appreciate it like they should. I am working hard on getting my youngest sibling to enjoy classical. I know that it will be healthy for her, especially in the long run. I still have a problem with some pieces sounding completely ridiculous to my ears. Though, with little musical training, I do pretty good with a lot of pieces.

                        People, have been to influenced by the 20th and 21st century popular culture. It seems that this is a type of mind frame that wants to block classical out! Meaning, that this pop-culture has trouble appreciating the great geniuses of music, because they have absolutely a complete lack of ear for classical.

                        Does that make any sense?
                        - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

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                          #13
                          Yes I think part of the problem is our life-styles which require instant reward for minimum effort. Everything in our popular culture makes very little demands either on our time or intellect - we simply are not mentally challenged and after many years of indoctrination I think it is hard for people to suddenly have to sit still for a few hours and concentrate! The films of today dispense wtih acting and a good story, relying solely on ever more 'impressive' in your face special effects.
                          There is so much in life that is missed by this 'fast-living' from the cavalier attitude towards our wildlife to the appreciation of a great Beethoven symphony!
                          'Man know thyself'

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                            #14
                            Couldn't agree more, Peter!! But popular culture in Elizabethan times was, amazingly, Shakespeare!! And these people mostly had no school education!! The ultimate paradox - educate people and see how far down the intellectual tree they fall when it comes to culture!!

                            I have a theory about the situation today and it's the "bread and circuses" mindset. Having shared discussions with many teaching colleagues over the years about this we pretty much came to that consensus. And it's disappointing as you get older to realize that fewer and fewer people share your values!!

                            Some wonderful things ARE produced by popular culture, but to exclude everything else in its pursuit is very sad indeed. We end up with the lowest common denominator!!

                            BTW: I went back into my old Music Theory books and noticed that only in 7th Grade was there any mention, in depth, of composers, styles, forms, etc. Many students just don't get that far!!
                            Last edited by Bonn1827; 06-04-2010, 11:02 PM.

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                              #15
                              Yes I think part of the problem is our life-styles which require instant reward for minimum effort. Everything in our popular culture makes very little demands either on our time or intellect - we simply are not mentally challenged and after many years of indoctrination I think it is hard for people to suddenly have to sit still for a few hours and concentrate!
                              Yes. I see the consumptive life-styles as a real problem. It is like so many have to be at the damned top and do not care who is at the bottom (now that is a problem)! It is a twisted race, that will never end. Consuming everything and then so many give so little in return. It is not just hard for so many to concentrate- it is impossible! I know, . So much of the pop-culture is completely mentally unbalanced. I am not saying that anyone is completely sane, I am saying that they need better roots, or to be more grounded and realistic.

                              And with music such as Beethoven- I think we all know how much time, studying, and most of all understanding went into his music. How can so many even attempt to begin looking into classical when they cannot even calm their minds?

                              The films of today dispense wtih acting and a good story, relying solely on ever more 'impressive' in your face special effects.
                              It is sad that so many cannot bear to watch things that do require thoughts, knowledge, intellect, etc. So many want to see things that give them a "thrill"- what weakness! People want action, comedy, lust, deceit, etc. in their films. I am not saying that all Hollywood is bad, though I am not saying that any of it is good, either. When I say good, I mean truly good. I loved Avatar (it is one of my favorites if not my favorite), though it is no Beethoven, Bach, etc. Greed corrupts so much, and walks over anyone in the way.

                              Anyway, enough rambling from me about the popular-culture.
                              Last edited by Preston; 06-05-2010, 08:11 AM.
                              - I hope, or I could not live. - written by H.G. Wells

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