the ultimate challenge and goal- scales

[Preston]

I know from Peter, and in general, this is a rather complex subject. Though, to my mind, one of the ultimate goals of understanding Beethoven would be to understand the scale/scales that he used in every piece he wrote. Yes, we know the Heiliger Dankgesang is primarily in the Lydian and a section of the Credo from the Missa Solemnis is in the Dorian Mode. But, in the Heiliger Dankgesang Beethoven wrote out what the scale is and in the Credo they say that he deliberately made it recognizable.

Though, what of all the other works. Surely their are ancient, Indian, Eastern, sacred, etc., etc., etc., scales in all of Beethoven works- seeing as he was a great musical genius.

Anyway, I was only thinking that one of the greater goals of understanding music as sublime as Beethoven's would be knowing the scales, or better yet, figuring them out! Which, would be quite the challenge, right?

So, would one of the greater goals be figuring out the scales that Beethoven used in his music? Thanks for help.

[Peter]

Beethoven uses the same major-minor system of scales used by Bach and all other western composers from about 1680 up until the 20th century. He occasionally uses hints of the old Church modal system (not the ancient Greek modes which were different) for brief moments in a few of the later works. He makes no use of Indian or eastern scales which have microtonal intervals that were not really explored by composers in the west until the 20th century.

[Preston]

Thank you Peter. It is hard for me to imagine that Beethoven used no Eastern scales, Since western music kind of derived from Eastern (I think, not sure though?)?

[Peter]

Thank you Peter. It is hard for me to imagine that Beethoven used no Eastern scales, Since western music kind of derived from Eastern (I think, not sure though?)?

Well yes if you go back far enough to the Sumerians, Persians and other ancient civilisations Preston - there is however a misconception that the Gregorian Church modal system was a direct descendant of the ancient Greek modes as they have the same names. Many musical instruments can also be traced back to early eastern influences. Beethoven's heritage though was based on the major-minor tonal system of tonality that developed in Europe out of the medieval church modes - he used the same musical langauge as Bach and Mahler.

[Preston]

Beethoven's heritage though was based on the major-minor tonal system of tonality that developed in Europe out of the medieval church modes - he used the same musical langauge as Bach and Mahler.

Peter, I could look up major-minor tonal system of tonality, though if I tried to understand it I doubt that I would get too far because of the complexity of the system.

Though, you seem to understand it and, at the same time, are good at explaining things in a simpler matter, based on your past explanations of theory. So, would you mind giving me an understandable brief summary of what the major-minor tonal system of tonality, and, tonality if you feel it is needed?

Thanks for help.

[Quijote]

Preston, whilst Peter is formulating his brief response to your complex question, why don't you try and Google the following : "The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music", theory exams. There you will find the syllabus from Grades 1 - 8, and relevant links to the books you might need. If you don't mind me saying this, I think it is time you took responsibility for your own learning, came down off the fence and make your own efforts.

[Preston]

Preston, whilst Peter is formulating his brief response to your complex question, why don't you try and Google the following : "The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music", theory exams. There you will find the syllabus from Grades 1 - 8, and relevant links to the books you might need. If you don't mind me saying this, I think it is time you took responsibility for your own learning, came down off the fence and make your own efforts.

You are right.

Peter, do not worry about answering my above questions.

[Quijote]

You are right.

Peter, do not worry about answering my above questions.

Preston, sorry if I came across a little too sharp. Please contact me by private message so I can elaborate. I want to help, but I am a strict and demanding teacher. Especially with talented and/or committed students. OK?

[Preston]

You have been called!

No, you came across frank and I appreciate that.

[Peter]

Preston, whilst Peter is formulating his brief response to your complex question, why don't you try and Google the following : "The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music", theory exams. There you will find the syllabus from Grades 1 - 8, and relevant links to the books you might need. If you don't mind me saying this, I think it is time you took responsibility for your own learning, came down off the fence and make your own efforts.

Inevitably responses will be brief with this format and my commitments but I'm heartened you're taking the trouble to take on a new online pupil!

[Preston]

Inevitably responses will be brief with this format and my commitments but I'm heartened you're taking the trouble to take on a new online pupil!

No, I am not looking for lessons. That I will do on my own. Just need to get around to doing it.

[Preston]

You have been called!

I guess there is nobody home?

[Quijote]

Inevitably responses will be brief with this format and my commitments but I'm heartened you're taking the trouble to take on a new online pupil!

This forum is not the place for formal music theory lessons, Peter, and I have only agreed to help Preston (via private messaging) on condition he takes a more committed approach. I will recommend to him certain theory books; the rest will be up to him. I agree to correct his exercises, with summary explanations as necessary.
Preston, I hope you are reading this.

[Quijote]

No, I am not looking for lessons. That I will do on my own. Just need to get around to doing it.

Then do it. Any questions, ask Peter or me (me : via private messaging). I admire your musico-intellectual interest. Develop it. One can drag a horse to a pond, but one cannot force it to drink.

[Quijote]

I guess there is nobody home?

Oh, I'm home alright. Are you going to make it worthwhile for me to be home?