Beethoven and piano practicing

[Chris]

How about this for a discussion:

What do we know of how Beethoven practiced the piano? What were the exercises he favored and had his students use? When he stopped giving concerts, did he stop practicing the piano on a regular basis?

[Immortal Beloved]

Originally posted by Chris:
How about this for a discussion:

What do we know of how Beethoven practiced the piano?

His father teached in a rude way....I can't remember the other one.

What were the exercises he favored and had his students use? When he stopped giving concerts, did he stop practicing the piano on a regular basis?

he stopped giving public concerts maybe somewhere around 1810.

[Peter]

Wegeler recalled that B met the pianist Sterkel in 1791 and commented 'Because he had not yet heard any great or celebrated pianists, Beethoven knew nothing of the finer nuances of handling the instrument; his playing was rough and hard.'
B was noted for his expressive powers, singing tone, brilliance and power rather than clarity and accuracy. I seem to recall reading that B was not one to spend hours practising and this may explain the lack of accuracy that was recorded in the 1790's before deafness became really apparent.

As a teacher he was apparently very patient and concentrated mainly on interpretation, though the correct position of the hand was always emphasised. He was not particularly impressed by any piano methods actively disliking Hummel's and advising Stephan Von Breuning not to practise Czerny's studies. He seems to have favoured Clementi's exercises and possibly those of Cramer. At one time he even contemplated writing his own studies - 'I would have written something quite unconventional though.'

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

What exercises do you favor, Peter, if I may ask?

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
What exercises do you favor, Peter, if I may ask?

I think Scales and arpeggios are essential. Hanon is very useful. However I don't believe in exercises per se, many pianists simply rattle through them and end up unable to play anything musically. At and advanced level I prefer to use certain of the Bach preludes as studies as well as Chopin's etudes. The most intelligent approach is when one comes across a difficulty in a piece, to tackle it in a simpler form via an appropiate study.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

I like the Hanon exercises too.

[Julie]

I have started taking piano lessons about 4 months ago and my teacher strongly recommends Hanon, which I have grown to enjoy. I am a huge fan of Beethoven, although classical music is rather new to me... I have always been a 70's and early 80's soft rock lover until now!

I just found this site not so long ago and love it. I hope you don't mind if I join the group!

Julie

[Peter]

Originally posted by Julie:
I have started taking piano lessons about 4 months ago and my teacher strongly recommends Hanon, which I have grown to enjoy. I am a huge fan of Beethoven, although classical music is rather new to me... I have always been a 70's and early 80's soft rock lover until now!

I just found this site not so long ago and love it. I hope you don't mind if I join the group!

Julie

You are welcome Julie - the only criteria for joining is a love of Beethoven's music - hopefully we'll be able to assist with any questions you may have.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Speaking of Hanon - Peter, does it seem to you that No. 60 is very usefull for the beginning of the first movement of piano sonata no. 21?

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
Speaking of Hanon - Peter, does it seem to you that No. 60 is very usefull for the beginning of the first movement of piano sonata no. 21?

I'm so used to referring to the sonatas by opus number, I had to think for a moment which was no.21! The Hanon exercise no.60 is very difficult and of course is meant to develop a perfect tremolo. I would have thought no.48 was more appropiate as it concentrates on repeated thirds.

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Julie:
I have started taking piano lessons about 4 months ago and my teacher strongly recommends Hanon, which I have grown to enjoy. I am a huge fan of Beethoven, although classical music is rather new to me... I have always been a 70's and early 80's soft rock lover until now!

I just found this site not so long ago and love it. I hope you don't mind if I join the group!

Julie

Hi, Julie. Well, you've come to the right place. If I may ask, how did you get to be a huge Beethoven fan especially if classical music is new to you?

Joy

[Julie]

Originally posted by Joy:
Hi, Julie. Well, you've come to the right place. If I may ask, how did you get to be a huge Beethoven fan especially if classical music is new to you?

Joy

My hubby has an aunt that is a piano teacher and she gave me the music to Moonlight Sonata and Fur Elise (simplified versions), along with a CD of classical music on piano (a 3 CD set actually various composers, which she was kind enough to lend me), and it is so beautiful. I just fell in love with it, and started researching about Beethoven, my piano teacher lent me the book I mentioned in a previous post about everything to do with him, his tragic life, illnesses/going deaf, how horrible a fate for such a great man. I also watched a movie on him, don't know if you ever heard of it but it is called "Beethoven Lives Upstairs", my piano teacher recommended it to me. I just loved it, and watched it 4 times!

Basically that is it, I also love other composers (but don't know many of their works, as this is all new to me) but I am learning to appreciate classical music very much. The funny thing is, when I first was looking for a piano teacher, I wanted to learn popular music and to make a long story short, I chose a teacher close to where I live that teaches by the Michael Aaron method, and there are lots of excerpts of different composers in his teaching method, like Rubinstein "Romance" and Lizst "Liebestraume", both of which I really love. So that is it in a nutshell. Hope this answers your questions.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Peter:
I'm so used to referring to the sonatas by opus number, I had to think for a moment which was no.21! The Hanon exercise no.60 is very difficult and of course is meant to develop a perfect tremolo. I would have thought no.48 was more appropiate as it concentrates on repeated thirds.

True, but I was thinking about the part in the left hand which follows the fermata.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
True, but I was thinking about the part in the left hand which follows the fermata.

I realised that was the passage you meant Chris when I woke up in the middle if the night! I still think that no.60 is a very advanced exercise - I know the Waldstein is a very difficult Sonata, but I don't think the tremolo passage you are referring to is all that difficult compared to the rest of the work - it certainly isn't as difficult as Hanon no.60! I would simply practice the passage as it is, at a slow tempo, with an exagerated rotary action and gradually increase the speed avoiding stiffness at all times.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

No, the hardest part would have to be the part in the third movement with the octaves - you know the part, I'm sure (we discussed it before, I think).