Cello Sonata Op.102 No.1/No.5

[stephanieg]

I am currently writing a paper on the Op. 102 cello sonatas and was wondering if anyone could give some insight on the life of Beethoven at this time. The sonatas were written roughly in 1815 and dedicated to the Countess Marie Erdödy. Also, any personal thoughts on the pieces?

Anything is much appreciated, THANKS

[Hofrat]

The 5th sonata for piano and 'cello is the only one of the five where Beethoven writes a full fledged slow movement.

[Peter]

I am currently writing a paper on the Op. 102 cello sonatas and was wondering if anyone could give some insight on the life of Beethoven at this time. The sonatas were written roughly in 1815 and dedicated to the Countess Marie Erdödy. Also, any personal thoughts on the pieces?

Anything is much appreciated, THANKS

Your best bet is to get Thayer's life of Beethoven which goes through his life and music chronologically. 1815 was a significant year for Beethoven with the death of his brother Caspar Carl in November - this event set in chain years of legal battles with his sister in law over the custody of his nephew Karl and ended in near tragedy when Karl attempted suicide in 1826. Beethoven's output throughout these years correspondingly slowed and the only major works produced in 1815 were the cello sonatas Op.102 which mark a stylistic change to Beethoven's third and last period.

[Ateach Asc]

Intriguing Notes in P&C #5

About 10 minutes into this remarkable work, there is a very brief set of notes which appear to separate one section of the work from the other.

Uncharacteristically, these notes are then left alone never to be developed into anything more by Beethoven.

The reason these notes attracted my attention... and startled me... is because these notes eventually reappear near the opening of Tara's theme in the classic film Gone With The Wind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cITml...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgF-rcHcPqE&feature=fvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikVeY0brtXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF48O...eature=related

[stude_ham]

Tara's Theme

Ateach Asc is referring to that very soft quiet transition passage in the 2nd movement of the Opus 102 work... and yes it is the music which ultimately wound up as Tara's theme in the film classic Gone With The Wind...

Here are some Youtube links and the timing at which the notes in question may be found..

At 3:57 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRzds...eature=related

At 4:02 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnRPh...eature=related

At 4:56 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTg8g...eature=related

[Peter]

About 10 minutes into this remarkable work, there is a very brief set of notes which appear to separate one section of the work from the other.

Uncharacteristically, these notes are then left alone never to be developed into anything more by Beethoven.

The reason these notes attracted my attention... and startled me... is because these notes eventually reappear near the opening of Tara's theme in the classic film Gone With The Wind.

I also hear this theme in the slow movement of Elgar's 2nd symphony and Elgar possibly got it from Beethoven and passed it on to Max Steiner!

Go to 1.37 in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS9DJ...rom=PL&index=2

[Michael]

The reason these notes attracted my attention... and startled me... is because these notes eventually reappear near the opening of Tara's theme in the classic film Gone With The Wind.

I probably have mentioned this already, but about ten years ago, when I was new to the Internet, I drew attention to the "Gone with the Wind" theme on some Beethoven website (not this one) and, with my usual devastating wit, posted something like: "Gosh, I never knew Beethoven was a movie fan". I was promptly rebuked by some American lady who informed me - very seriously -that Beethoven died in 1827.
No wonder I use so many icons now.

[Roehre]

I probably have mentioned this already, but about ten years ago, when I was new to the Internet, I drew attention to the "Gone with the Wind" theme on some Beethoven website (not this one) and, with my usual devastating wit, posted something like: "Gosh, I never knew Beethoven was a movie fan". I was promptly rebuked by some American lady who informed me - very seriously -that Beethoven died in 1827.
No wonder I use so many icons now.

That reminds me of a record shop which (as a publicity stunt on April 1st 1977 ) advertized with a "composers played by composers"-series, of which quite a lot (Rachmaninov, Mahler, Strauss, and many others) were original and extant. However, they mentioned as well a recording of the Hammerklavier by the composer.
there were actually some fools who didn't get it, but there was a killjoy too who did seriously reprimand the owner of the shop that this was impossible as Beethoven had died in 1827 and that therefore the shop owner's knowledge of Classical Music was far under par....

OK, back to opus 102/1.
The first public reaction to opus 102 was a critic in November 1818 in the Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung : these sonatas belonged "...certainly to the most unusual and excentric" what has been published in a long time for pianoforte players, and to the most uncompromising by this composer anyway.

Not surprisingly I think: Beethoven uses here for the first time polyphony in works for a string instrument with piano, with some literally unheard features which were forward looking to later compositions, especially the "Late style Beethoven": e.g. the "Allegro fugato" of the finale - first example of a fuge or fugato used in a way which was to play such an important role in e.g. the Hammerklavier and the late quartets.

B himself was conscious of all these points: He called Opus 102/1 "Freie Sonata" himself, therefore using a terminology he'd used before for the last time for the opus 27 sonatas (sonata-quasi-phantasia).