Beethoven and the Classical style...

[Black Dog]

That's fascinating. I always thought there was something especially beautiful about the second theme in the Waldstein, but could never quite put my finger on it. Playing the chords Chris mentioned next to each other, I can tell that's a big part of it. I'll definitely also take a close listen to the pieces Peter mentioned when I get a chance.

However, which movement of the Trout quintet were you referring to? I could be wrong, but it sounds like the first movement's exposition starts in A major, then moves to E major (the dominant) for the rest of the material, whereas the subdominant would have been D major (unless I'm just confused).

[Peter]

That's fascinating. I always thought there was something especially beautiful about the second theme in the Waldstein, but could never quite put my finger on it. Playing the chords Chris mentioned next to each other, I can tell that's a big part of it. I'll definitely also take a close listen to the pieces Peter mentioned when I get a chance.

However, which movement of the Trout quintet were you referring to? I could be wrong, but it sounds like the first movement's exposition starts in A major, then moves to E major (the dominant) for the rest of the material, whereas the subdominant would have been D major (unless I'm just confused).

It is in the last movement that as Rosen states "Schubert was the first to write an exposition than modulates to the subdominant" - you are right that the subdominant would be D major.

[Hofrat]

Be careful of the generalizations that go like this: "Composer 'X' was the first to do 'Y'" where 'X' is a composer's name and 'Y' is some musical feat. It is my experience that such generalizations are wrong 99% of the time.

[Peter]

Be careful of the generalizations that go like this: "Composer 'X' was the first to do 'Y'" where 'X' is a composer's name and 'Y' is some musical feat. It is my experience that such generalizations are wrong 99% of the time.

Generally you are right! Maybe an earlier example of such a modulation can be found (I have neither the time or inclination to go searching for one), but the point Rosen is making is of the rarity in Classical sonata form as opposed to the emerging Romantic movement.