Stop and prepare : Cage

[Michael]

................. with one hemidemisemiquaver note/chord played approximately every 5.5 days.

I hope this leaves you totally confused.

Mmmm. I have heard some Beethoven performances which have replicated the above.
And, Philip, EVERYTHING you post leaves me totally confused.

[Sorrano]

I have to admit that I've often pondered what exactly was as slow as possible. This made me laugh outright! But as long as it's on a period instrument.....

[Quijote]

And, Philip, EVERYTHING you post leaves me totally confused.

Ah, I see. So you didn't post this, then :

Michael writes : "I see what you mean. There is also the curious case of the Emperor Concerto (not in the night-time!). The opening cadenza-like flourish - is it part of the sonata-form movement or just an introduction? I know that the concerto doesn't strictly obey the rules of symphonic first-movement form, but that opening is never referred to again until the recapitulation - so, is this really another throwback to the Baroque overture?"

But as you later went on to say, you had been drinking. So you only understand me when drunk, is that it?

Well, a case of in vino veritas I think.

Add icon.

* Apologies to PDG for highlighting certain words.

[Quijote]

I have to admit that I've often pondered what exactly was as slow as possible. This made me laugh outright! But as long as it's on a period instrument.....

Hah ! And touché !

Talking of music played as slow as possible, I know a piece that is meant to be played as long as possible (which I suppose amounts to the same thing).

The piece is Composition 1960 N° 7 by La Monte Young (American minimalist composer), and consists of an open 5th (B - F#) played on an organ (maybe even a Hammond). The performance instructions are : to be held for a long time.
In the absence of any further instructions, we can see that in essence this work considerably predates the Cage "Organ2/ASLSP" piece.
Would any "fishers of men" on this forum (and others, of course) like to hazard a guess at the composer's intentions here?

[Quijote]

Apologies, this should be on the General forum. I'll continue over there.

Fin

[Michael]

Ah, I see. So you didn't post this, then :

Michael writes : "I see what you mean. There is also the curious case of the Emperor Concerto (not in the night-time!). The opening cadenza-like flourish - is it part of the sonata-form movement or just an introduction? I know that the concerto doesn't strictly obey the rules of symphonic first-movement form, but that opening is never referred to again until the recapitulation - so, is this really another throwback to the Baroque overture?"

But as you later went on to say, you had been drinking. So you only understand me when drunk, is that it?

Well, a case of in vino veritas I think.

Add icon.

* Apologies to PDG for highlighting certain words.

Alright, Philip, reduce "EVERYTHING" to 95%. When you are not displaying irrelevant erudition and trying to outfox us all semantically and ideologically, I will give the best reply I can to an intelligent musical question. The more musically educated people on this forum can certainly give you better answers, but, having spent many, many years listening to Beethoven I think I am allowed to throw in my two-cents' worth.
(When I say many years, I am not speaking in the John Cage sense. I did take time out to work, sleep, eat, etc.)

[Quijote]

Alright, Philip, reduce "EVERYTHING" to 95%. When you are not displaying irrelevant erudition and trying to outfox us all semantically and ideologically, I will give the best reply I can to an intelligent musical question. The more musically educated people on this forum can certainly give you better answers, but, having spent many, many years listening to Beethoven I think I am allowed to throw in my two-cents' worth.
(When I say many years, I am not speaking in the John Cage sense. I did take time out to work, sleep, eat, etc.)

Look Michael, erudition (and precision in use of language) are not to be sneered at. And I am certainly not trying to outfox anyone ideologically or semantically. You know as well as I do that language is a highly charged medium, and I do indeed question some of the ideologies that underpin the postings I read here. If I find something questionable, why shouldn't I say so? Your comment is therefore unkind and misplaced. I would like to return to this after.*

Your replies to musical questions are genuine and sincere, and as valid as anyone more musically literate. I think you can see that in my replies to your postings about the string trio genre, no? My questioning of your terms "technical" (i.e. instrumental) and "compositional" (i.e. structuring), was an attempt to focus what you wanted to say, that's all. My hemidemisemiquaver/Cage posting was intended to be humorously pedagogical, as shown in the last sentence about hoping to confuse you. (In retrospect, pedagogically flawed.)

Talking about musical literacy, may I ask why you have never learnt to read music? This is not a jibe, I only ask as it is clear your interest in music runs deep, and the ability to read music is a skill like any other; yes, it takes some effort (like learning a language), is slow at first but then the facility grows exponentially, and the rewards very satisfying. You would hardly be a reluctant student, I am convinced. Whatever your age, don't say to me it's too late.

* Where I do get annoyed is the "Haw haw, look at / listen to that, what-a-piece-of-crap" approach. I feel that the underlying idea is to play the "child who said the Emperor was wearing no clothes" card, without any real critical engagement with what the work is trying to say. I know very well how you would react if some yahoo posted unsubstantiated derogatory comments about Beethoven's music.

I forgot to ask : where is my erudition irrelevant?

[Michael]

As usual, you have raised umpteen issues, so I will reply to just one or two.
You use the word "unkind" and I apologise if I have been so, but I am too long in the tooth to put up with "pieces of crap" (to semi-quote you,) like that walking piano. I suspect you know in your heart of hearts that this kind of stuff is ephemeral and not for an instant to be compared to real art - but I think you enjoy being the Devil's Advocate.
As to my musical illiteracy (my words, I hasten to add), I put it down to a number of things, not excluding laziness. My parents were musical but we never owned a piano - and I could never afford one. (And now, being retired, I still can’t afford a piano or lessons.) Practically all of my friends and colleagues have no strong musical interests.
I have tried to teach myself to read music on a number of occasions, but I much prefer listening. I do understand music – especially musical architecture - and have read many advanced books on Beethoven – without too much trouble. Sentences like: “The second theme closes, with eighteenth century formality, over a repeated A, the orthodox dominant, but the expected full close in D, for which it prepares, is evaded” do not scare me very much – even if followed by half a page of musical notation - because I know the piece of music so well, I can hear that section in my head.
But, as Michael Caine once said: “That’s enough of me talking about myself. Now let’s hear what you think of me”.

[Quijote]

[...]but I am too long in the tooth to put up with "pieces of crap" (to semi-quote you,) like that walking piano. I suspect you know in your heart of hearts that this kind of stuff is ephemeral and not for an instant to be compared to real art - but I think you enjoy being the Devil's Advocate.

I see the problem now. You think I place such works as S,R,P on an equal footing with Beethoven (or Dante, or Da Vinci ...), but I have never said that. I have already stated that it is not groundbreaking, but a humorous and clever little piece of 'conceptual' art. I have no idea how ephemeral it will prove to be, but I do think it is art. Your term "real art" really does beg a question. What would you have such artists do? Not create? As to playing Devil's Advocate : yes, to a point it's true.

As to my musical illiteracy (my words, I hasten to add), I put it down to a number of things, not excluding laziness. My parents were musical but we never owned a piano - and I could never afford one. (And now, being retired, I still can’t afford a piano or lessons.)

OK. What about finding a serious music student to help out (cheaper, cash in hand etc)?

But, as Michael Caine once said: “That’s enough of me talking about myself. Now let’s hear what you think of me”.

Interesting

[Quijote]

Comments, Michael?

[Peter]

Sorry to close this but we do have it running on the other forum
http://www.gyrix.com/forums/showthre...1772#post41772