!!!

[Droell]

Droell;

See "The Mozart Handbook," page 570:

Nephritis and Bright's desease.

From: http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/mozart/text.htm

Various commentators, especially medical practitioners, who have subscribed to the 'death by natural causes' school have suggested in various biographies and articles that any of the following may have been responsible for the composers demise:

Severe Miliary Disease: Pneumonia: Brights Disease: Deposit on the brain: Apoplexy: Consumption: Rheumatic and Inflammatory Fever: Epilepsy: Uraemia: Renal Failure: Lack of exercise and overwork: Dropsy: Chronic Nephritis: Severe Grippe: Heart Failure: Tuberculosis: Meningitis: Kidney Failure: Encephalitis: Injury (Unspecified): Goitre: Typhoid Fever: Water on the chest: Gastritis: Cirrhosis: Tabes Dorsalis: Typhus: Fractured skull.

Some of these are very imprecise or highly speculative. A number of the symptoms listed, Brights Disease, uraemia, renal failure and nephritis are associated with kidney disease which is now widely accepted as the cause of death. Two major studies in recent years are those of Dr. Carl Bar (Salzburg 1972) and Australian consultant Peter Davies (various 1984-89). Bar, with considerable conviction, proposed that acute rheumatic fever was the underlying cause of death. Davies, while acknowledging that Mozart had suffered from early attacks of rheumatic fever, presented a strong case for the progression to final illnesses as "streptococcal infection - Schonlein-Henoch Syndrome - renal failure - venesection(s) - cerebral haemorrhage - terminal bronchopneumonia".

The latter proposed sequence commences with an infection which gives rise to the Schonlein-Henoch Syndrome (SHS), a complaint identified by two German doctors in the nineteenth century, Lucas Schonlein and Edward Henoch. The condition affects blood vessels in the vicinity of various organs including the kidneys, stomach, lungs and heart. This can have long term affects and although the affliction is chiefly associated with children, Davies has made a case that Mozart developed the Syndrome in 1784 and this resulted in kidney (renal) failure during his last days. This in turn was worsened by blood letting (venesection) which occasioned a brain haemorrhage towards the end and that the immediate cause of death was pneumonia which "usually develops when the patient is already moribund". There where doubts about his diagnosis expressed by medical sources within the Society of the friends of Mozart in New York published in the Musical Times.

I'd be more convinced if they presented the case against renal failure. Instead the author continues with:

Medical standards were comparatively primitive at the time of Mozart's death compared to the latter part of the twentieth century. Nursing did not exist as a profession and approximately 95% of all drugs presently in use were discovered within the last fifty years. Eighteenth century infant mortality rates often exceeded 50%. Mozart and his sister, Nannerl, were the only two survivors from seven children. Four out of six of Mozart's children died in infancy. Leopold Mozart had commented on the results of the practice of foster care in French rural areas which he had witnessed on the streets of Paris. He wrote of the blind, the lame and the mutilated beggars he had seen, the victims of neglect "while the foster-father and his family were working in the fields".

Average life expectancy was less than fifty years and in the month of December 1791 when Mozart died, there was no one above the age of fifty six who died in St. Stephen's parish that same month. The very existence, names, causes, symptoms or cures for many diseases were completely unknown and the diagnosis of illnesses was highly inaccurate. Advances in medicine from the Middle Ages up to the eighteenth century were limited and many primitive beliefs and superstitions prevailed. The belief that a swollen body was also a sign of death by poison as in Mozart's case can be attributed to ignorance.

Amputations without anaesthetics continued until almost the middle of the nineteenth century. The simple stethoscope was unknown at the time of Mozart's death and even the thermometer was not yet regarded as another aid to medical care. Blood letting, the removal of blood from a vein or by leeches attached to the body, was very widespread due to the belief that ill health was usually due to an excess of blood. It was a school of thought in Dublin, Ireland, which achieved nineteenth century eminence by advocating that shock and existing ailments were only worsened by the then prevalent practice of starvation and blood letting. The Dublin Royal College of Surgeons which advocated nourishment instead of the removal of blood was founded in 1784, the same year Joseph II founded his great hospital in Vienna (it is another mark of Joseph's enlightened attitude that this 3000 bed hospital was far advanced for its day with a section for unmarried mothers reached by a private entrance), followed by his medical Surgeons Academy, the Josephinum, in 1785. Under Maria Theresa and Joseph II Vienna had become the major centre for medical learning in Europe and produced renowned names in medicine. The Empresses personal physician Gerhard Van Swieten (1700-72) had published his "Aphorismos De Cognoscendis Et Curandis Morbus" in 1766 and Franz Joseph Gall (1758-1828) was a prominent conductor of experiments in phrenology and the skull.

Extra verbiage is usually an attempt to cover up a weak argument with misdirection. If we know it's renal failure, why do we need a reminder that amputations were performed without anaesthetics? Which, except in battlefield conditions, was not true anyway. It is true to say that amputations were performed without modern anaesthetics. Earlier anaesthetics include being blind drunk. What does this have to do with Mozart's death? Did he die of amputation?

I boldface my remarks only that you can find them in the quoted material.

[Hofrat]

Droell;

You must remember that Mozart had several bouts with scarlet fever during his life time. Scarlet fever can cause kidney damage. So if Mozart's kidneys were damaged, a kidney ailment could cause kidney failure and death.

[Droell]

Peter: You're being insulting and you should be called on it.

I don't have access to primary source material. Neither do you. What I can do is suggest. To tease. To propose alternatives. To ask you to look again, to hear anew. This you refuse to do. You insist I drag Mozart's bloody corpse for your personal inspection. Very well. It's buried next to his wife.

Did the seven year old Mozart compose his first symphony? Not so far as I can tell. That's a mature, accomplished work of great subtlety. Did he compose his piano concerti? Well, if he did, why do his symphonies sound entirely different? Do you know of any other composer who routinely composed and published blocks of concerti for the same instrument? Five violin concerti in one go? Four horn concerti as a thank-you to a butcher? And then never touch the form again? A five hour opera at the age of 14? Why, exactly, was Mozart such a pariah among his fellow composers? Why was JC Bach up in arms?

You say, present evidence. I present evidence, you ignore it. Go listen to one of Punto's horn concerti. Go listen to Hummel's bassoon concerto. From 1805. Go listen to Mozart's 14th violin-piano sonata & tell me how he managed to create Beethoven's middle style whole cloth. Mozart increasingly looks like a wholesale fraud.

Here is about 3/4ths of Wiki's list of known spurious symphonies by Mozart. The list is truncated as I have reached the maximum entry size permitted. See the full list here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_...l_authenticity

(Makes you wonder what other spurious works, in other genres, may still be attributed to him.)


List of doubtful and spurious symphonies


1 K. 15a–ss K. 15a–ss 1764 Keyboard sketches in E Flat major 4 London Mozart's London notebook contains 43 2-stave sketches, catalogued K. 15a to K. 15ss. From these, Zaslaw has identified four (K. 15kk, K. 15dd, K. 15cc and K. 15ee) as the basis of possible lost "London" symphony [6]
2 K. 16b Anh. C11.01 1765 Symphony in C major – London Exists only in sketch form. Generally thought to be by Leopold Mozart [7][8]
3 K. 17 Anh. C11.02 1765? Symphony in B flat major "No. 2" 4 London? The provenance of this work, for which an early 19th century copy exists, but no autograph score, has long been debated, the present consensus being that it is not by Wolfgang, but might be a Leopold Mozart symphony. Dearling calls it a "rustic and rather awkward". [9][10]
4 K. 18 Anh. A51 1764? Symphony in E flat major "No. 3" 3 London Identified as Symphony No. 6 by Carl Friedrich Abel, copied and possibly re-ochestrated by Mozart while in London [11][12]
5 Anh. 220 K.16a Unknown Symphony in A minor ("Odense") 3 Unknown Believed lost, and known only by brief incipits, a copy of the score was rediscovered in Odense in 1982, and performed in 1984 as Mozart's. Further study has established that it is probably not the work of either Wolfgang or Leopold Mozart. The composer remains unknown [13][14]
6 Anh. 222 K. 19b 1765? Symphony in C major – London? Lost except for opening bars of Allegro non tanto. Attribution to Mozart uncertain [15]
7 K. 76 K. 42a 1767? Symphony in F major "No. 43" 4 Vienna? Until recently its attribution to Mozart was accepted, but is now uncertain. Possibly by Leopold Mozart (Zaslaw), but this is disputed by Leopold expert Cliff Eisen, who thinks it the work of neither Leopold nor Wolfgang. [16][17]
8 Anh. 214 K. 45b 1767? Symphony in B flat major "No 55"
(In NMA) 4 Salzburg? Symphony was lost until a copy was found in Berlin, 1943. The origins of the symphony are disputed (1767, Salzburg per Zaslaw, 1768, Vienna per NMA). Attribution to Mozart cannot be confirmed, but it is frequently treated as genuine. [18][19]
[20]
9 Anh. 215 K. 66c 1768? Symphony in D major
(In NMA) – Unknown One of a group of three lost symphonies (see 66d and 66e) known only by incipits in the Breitkopf & Härtel catalogue. Dearling speculates they may have been written later, in preparation for the family's 1769 Italian trip, but there is no direct evidence that they are Mozart's work. [21][22]
10 Anh. 217 K. 66d 1768? Symphony in B flat major – Unknown See note on K. 66c [23][24]
11 Anh. 218 K. 66e Unknown Symphony in B flat major – Unknown See note on K. 66c [25][26]
12 Anh. 216 Anh. C11.03 1770? Symphony in B flat major "No. 54" 4 Unknown Until 1910 this was known only by an incipit. A copy, since lost, was then discovered in the Berlin library, and the work was assumed to be authentic, on the basis of "style" rather than substantiation. Modern opinion, in the absence of direct evidence, is that its authorship remains uncertain. [27][28]
13 K. 98 Anh. C11.04 1770? Symphony in F major "No. 48" 4 Milan? Originally taken as authentic Mozart by, among others, Köchel, the symphony has since come to be regarded as the work of an unidentified composer with no connection to the Mozart circle. [29][30]
14 - Anh. C11.05 Unknown Symphony in B flat major 2 Unknown Published in Paris around 1806, lost and rediscovered in 1937, this was then thought to be a second "Paris symphony". However, its low quality ("a third rate imitation of a French operetta overture" – Zaslaw) indicated that it was more likely a forgery by an unknown hand. [31]
15 Anh. 219 Anh. C11.06 Unknown Symphony in D major – Unknown Listed in the Brietkopf & Härtel catalogue as a Mozart work obtained from Hamburg music dealer Johann Christoph Wastphal, this is a symphony by Leopold Mozart. [32]
16 - Anh. C11.07 Unknown Symphony in D major – Unknown Known only by 2-bar incipit in the Breitkopf & Härtel Manuscript Catalogue. Attribution to Mozart uncertain [33]
17 - Anh. C11.08 Unknown Symphony in F major – Unknown Known only by 4-bar incipit in the Breitkopf & Härtel Manuscript Catalogue. Attribution to Mozart uncertain</ [34]
18 K. 81 K. 73l 1770 Symphony in D major "No. 44"
(In NMA) 3 Rome Opinion is divided on the authorship, between Leopold and Wolfgang Mozart. Originally listed in the Breitkopf catalogue as Leopold's, later conjecture has proposed the work as Wolfgang's, but there is no certainty either way. [35][36]
[37]
19 K. 97 K. 73m 1770 Symphony in D major "No. 47"
(In NMA) 4 Rome Only the lack of an autograph score has created uncertainty in this symphony's attribution. It is frequently accepted as authentic Mozart. Dearling expresses no doubt as to its authenticity [38][39]
20 K. 95 K. 73n 1770? Symphony in D major "No. 45"
(In NMA) 4 Rome? Zaslaw describes this as a symphony whose authenticiity has "never been seriously enough questioned". Apart from the lack of an autograph score, the grounds for its assignment to 1770 and Rome in K1 and K6 are unstated. The work has Mozartian characteristics, and may be genuine but from an earlier period, but this cannot be verified. [40]
21 K. 84 K. 73q 1770 Symphony in D major "No. 11"
(In NME) 3 Milan or Bologna Copies of the score from Vienna, Berlin and Prague attribute the work respectively to Wolfgang, Leopold, and Carl Dittersdorf. Stylistic analysis indicates that, of the three, Wolfgang is the most likely composer, and Dittersdorf the least. [41][42]
[43]
22 K. 75 K. 75 1771 Symphony in F major "No. 42"
(In NMA) 4 Salzburg Although its authenticity is uncertain, its attribution to Mozart, has not been generally questioned, despite what Zaslaw calls a "mysterious provenance". Also, the Minuet and Trio is atypically the second rather than the third movement. [44]
23 K. 96 K. 111b 1771? Symphony in C major "No. 46"
(In NMA) 4 Milan? Certain stylistic features challenge the work's assumed dating; the work may be of later provenance In the absence of an autograph score or other direct evidence it cannot be attributed to Mozart with certainty. However, it is usually treated as authentic. [45]
24 Anh. 293 Anh. C11.09 1775 Symphony in G major 4 Unknown Widely acepted as a symphony by Leopold Mozart, it has in the past been attributed to Wolfgang. [46]
25 K. 291 Anh. A52 1781? Symphony in D major 3 Salzburg This symphony, Perger No. 43 by Michael Haydn, was wrongly attributed to Mozart on the basis of a fragment of mauscript which Mozart copied, apparently to help him study the fugue form of the final movement. [47]
26 - Anh. A59 1783? Four incipits in D, G, and D and C major – Unknown Three of these incipits have been identified with symphonies by Joseph Haydn: Nos 47, 62 and 75. The fourth is unidentified, is possibly a fragment of a lost Mozart symphony. [48]
27 - Anh. C11.10 Unknown Symphony in F major ? Unknown A symphony, wrongly attributed to Mozart, by Ignace Pleyel (1757–1831), an Austrian composer and Kapellmeister at Strasbourg in 1789. He wrote many symphonies and other orchestral pieces, but his greatest fame was as a piano manufacturer. [49][50]
28 - Anh. C11.11 1783 Symphony in C major ? Unknown A symphony by the Bohemian composer Adelbert Gyrowetz (1763–1850). This was performed in 1785 at a concert given by Mozart in Vienna, and assumed to be Mozart's own work. [51][52]
29 K. 444 Anh. A53 1784? Symphony in G major "No. 37" 3 Linz? A symphony by Michael Haydn, Perger No. 16, for which Mozart wrote a 20-bar slow introduction. It was premiered in Linz at the same concert as Mozart's 36th ("Linz") symphony. Until 1907 the entire work was thought to be Mozart's, and it was frequently performed as his 37th. [53][54]
30 - Anh. C11.12 Unknown Symphony in F major – Unknown Zaslaw identifies this work, from the K.6 Anhang as a symphony of Carl Dittersdorf, mistakenly attributed to Mozart. [55]
31 Anh. 294 Anh. C11.13 Unknown Symphony in G major – Unknown Zaslaw identifies this work, from the K.6 Anhang as a symphony by Leopold Mozart. [56]

[Droell]

Droell;

You must remember that Mozart had several bouts with scarlet fever during his life time. Scarlet fever can cause kidney damage. So if Mozart's kidneys were damaged, a kidney ailment could cause kidney failure and death.

Yes, and during his life he was also accused, more than once, of being a fraud.

What was your question?

[Hofrat]

I agree with you. 100%.

Just tell me what he died from.

You asked the above question and I answered it.

As for the rest of this "Mozart Game," I agree with Peter. This looks like another Robert Newman discussion.

[Peter]

Peter: You're being insulting and you should be called on it.

If you wish to continue this topic then I suggest you find another forum to do it. Adieux.