Mental Imagery on Listening to Beethoven's Music

[Hofrat]

you might be right there Phillip about works having preconditioned scenes. Pastoral, Eroica etc. but what about those that don't. Chris pointed out that he imagines notes, and im presuming he means with all of B, or Baroque and Classical, music. It seems to me that without a certain precondition people assosciate the music they listen to with something more specifically indivdual to them.

What made someone suddenly think "Moonlight", or "Emperor"?

Philip, I do remember a scene from Path of Glory, but there is no music on that scene just synch-sound.

Well, we have the music critic Ludwig Rellstab to blame for the nickname "Moonlight" because in 1831 he wrote that the C#-minor sonata reminds him of the moonlight on a lake. That was 4 years after Beethoven's death and 30 years after Beethoven composed the sonata. During Beethoven's lifetime, it was just the C#-minor sonata.

[Hofrat]

I have another one:
8. The Flea Song.

That is a great example of imagery. The piano depicts the flea as it hops around, and in the end of the piece, Beethoven instructs the pianist to thump adjacent piano keys with his thumb as if he was trying to squash the flea.

It simply shows that Beethoven could create imagery when he wanted to. But most of the time he wrote "absolute music." Maybe we are doing Beethoven a disservice by trying to read imagery into everything he wrote instead of just sitting back and listening to his artistry and genius.

[susanwen]

When I listen to the third movement of the Ninth Symphony, I see a swan, out on the river.

[Quijote]

When I listen to the third movement of the Ninth Symphony, I see a swan, out on the river.

Keep taking the pills, Suzie-baby !! (Add icon thingie, you know, the smiley one). Which river, by the way? Don't say the Danube, please.
I think I will have to assign you a role in the next Act of my epic play - see "Comedy Corner" elsewhere on this forum.

[PDG]

Symphony n° 9 : male rage bordering on murderous frenzy, with a soupçon of rape. Oops, not me, that was Susan McClary;

You may well be right about this.

[PDG]

Piano sonata Op. 106 : a roasted pheasant with game chips, dark sauce and served with a Chateau-Neuf de Pape, or a Médoc;

You may well be wrong about this.

[PDG]

Well, we have the music critic Ludwig Rellstab to blame for the nickname "Moonlight" because in 1831 he wrote that the C#-minor sonata reminds him of the moonlight on a lake. That was 4 years after Beethoven's death and 30 years after Beethoven composed the sonata. During Beethoven's lifetime, it was just the C#-minor sonata.

It was Lake Lucerne and of course referred only to the first movement!

[Quijote]

You may well be right about this.

Could you elaborate, PDG?

[PDG]

And what do you suppose one might imagine at the "hook" motif of the finale of the Second Symphony? Some have suggested a "belch" while others have hinted at elsewhere....

And yet it still makes such perfect musical sense.

[Quijote]

You may well be wrong about this.

Alright, what about roast goose?

[PDG]

When I was working on the E Major Sonata (I don't recall what number or what opus) I envisioned in the 1st movement the footfall of many soldiers in marching.

Opus 14, number 1?

[PDG]

Alright, what about roast goose?

Nope, still wrong...

[Quijote]

And yet it still makes such perfect musical sense.

Quite. Which is why this thread - whilst fun - can only end in a list of each forum member's personal subjective responses to the music. What is perhaps more interesting is the "shared" imagery, which, as I mentioned above, is conditioned by the long history of reception.

[PDG]

Could you elaborate, PDG?

Well, naturally, just having had an argument with my girlfriend, Clare (she's very lovely, but.....), I said that she should read Philip's post about Beethoven's subconscious agenda behind the Ninth Symphony, and she was not impressed! Harumph!

[Quijote]

Nope, still wrong...

Well then PDG, you must tell us what (perverted!) mental imagery B's music conjures up for you. Oh, go on, do tell !