Pictures of Beethoven

[TiberiaClaudia]

Phil-Thank you so much for the link to the painting of Beethoven's hands. As soon as I saw it the image became a favorite. I love the second engraving/plate I posted that you mentioned you never saw, the eyes in particular. There is a stark reality about them that borders on the creepy. I also like the mood set in your image by Karel de Dake. You can see the imperfections in his skin, even...

Preston-I agree the Joseph Karl Stieler image is romantacized, but so is the one I posted earlier where LvB is outside holding an instrument and has the other hand in the air (by Joseph Mähler). I have heard that the Joseph Karl Stieler image is a good likeness--or, at least, Schindler thought so. This is the one LvB refused to sit for repeatedly so the hands in the image were done from memory:

http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Portraits...rlStieler.html

It isn't one of my favorites. To me the hands look seriously all wrong--smallish and almost out of proportion. No offense to anyone else whose taste finds the portrait appealing intended, of course.

TC

[Phil Leeds]

That's okay TC. Actually it was Joy who gave the link to the hands. I don't like the Stieler one much - I had read somewhere that Beethoven did like the end result even though he refused to sit for it.

He looks cute in this one when he was 14 http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/p...mari/bet1.html
but I have read that it is possibly not of him

[Preston]

Preston-I agree the Joseph Karl Stieler image is romantacized, but so is the one I posted earlier where LvB is outside holding an instrument and has the other hand in the air (by Joseph Mähler). I have heard that the Joseph Karl Stieler image is a good likeness--or, at least, Schindler thought so. This is the one LvB refused to sit for repeatedly so the hands in the image were done from memory:

http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Portraits...rlStieler.html

It isn't one of my favorites. To me the hands look seriously all wrong--smallish and almost out of proportion. No offense to anyone else whose taste finds the portrait appealing intended, of course.

TC

I would not recommend reading Schindler, after the things that I have read around the forum and the internet. Schindler was a liar when it came to Beethoven, for the most part. This is why Thayer set out on an exhaustive search, to find the truth about Beethoven, because he had caught Schindler on his lies. Everything that I have read, was that Thayer wanted to stop this romanticized vision of Beethoven and bring the truth. It took many years of his life.

All the accounts of Beethoven looks that I have read state that he didn't look like the Stieler. They state things like he, had a pocked-mark face, that he was known as the Spaniard due to his skin color and his appearance, that he was short and stocky, etc. Not to say that he was the most unattractive man around.

I posted the picture I posted because it relates to the accounts. Like the time he got arrested for peeping into peoples houses outside of Vienna, and the police thought he was a bum who was up to know good. He kept insisting that he was Beethoven but they didn't believe him. Finally, they called for a conductor from Vienna, who proved him to be Beethoven. He was then set free.

[Fanny del Rio]

Beethoven himself liked this portrait very much, because the people told him, that you can see his soul in it. He used it like today an autograph, he sent it to his friends with some words, like you can see on this page:

http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/si...=5056&_seite=2

But the portrait of Mähler 1804, Hollywood posted here, accompanied him until his death, --he looked at it all the time!!!--. He was the owner of this picture. And this of his grandfather. I think, these two pictures had been the only decoration on Beethoven's walls.

Beethoven could not understand, why people want to have a picture of his face, he said:
oh god, how are you tormented, when you have such a fatal face like I have.

[TiberiaClaudia]

Images

:O Oops! So it was Joy who gave the link--sometimes those quotation blocks mess with my head...

Thank you, Joy, for the link to Beethoven's hands I "stole" the image and have it stored on my computer now

Preston-Yeah, I know Schindler is none too reliable--and I received my volumes by Thayer yesterday before going to the symphony!!! I would like to get a copy of "Beethoven as I knew him" by Schindler-- but one that has comments and annotations by scholars separating fact from fiction.

Where did you get your info on the Joseph Karl Stieler? I ask because I'd like to read the sites you got the contemporary critiques from. I did read that the Stieler was generally considered a good late life likeness despite the romanticism of it. Of course, it may all be relative to the viewer since with art if you have 10 different people looking at a painting you get at least 20 different interpretatons!

Looking back at an enigma such as Beethoven from this point in time, I consider the Mahler images and the Christian Horneman to be his best (young/youngish)likenesses. And, as Peter mentioned, there's the indisputable representation contained in the life mask from 1812.

Yes, I remember the story of Beethoven's arrest... The change that occurred in him is amazing since Morris wrote of him as being so impeccable when younger that he polished his teeth with a napkin constantly and kept in fashion.

Phil--The 14 year old portrait is very cute indeed. I like the side sketch of him in a wig from when he was a teenager as well, but unfortunately can't locate that link atm.

I'm looking at the antique bust of Beethoven passed down from my great, great violinist grandfather as I type and I can't help but think how inaccurate it is to what was probably his actual likeness...but at the same time, of how accurate it is to the general idea of who he was considered to be.

[Phil Leeds]

Here is a link to some more Beethoven pictures:

http://www.csudh.edu/oliver/beetport/beetport.htm

I think number 8 might be the side sketch you refer to TC

[TiberiaClaudia]

Thanks for that link, Phil! Yes, sketch 8 is the one to which I was referring.

I like the coffee story behind the Ferdinand Schimon--I wonder if I get that look after espresso as well?

TC

[Phil Leeds]

Thanks for that link, Phil! Yes, sketch 8 is the one to which I was referring.

I like the coffee story behind the Ferdinand Schimon--I wonder if I get that look after espresso as well?

TC

Possibly Is that you in your avatar?
I get a certain look after too much of Ludwig's favourite tipple, i.e. red wine

[al1432]

Maybe, just maybe, there is no definitive image of Beethoven, but rather subjective interpretations as varied as the interpretations of his music. Maybe everyone sees, and hears, him just a little bit differently, this being reflected in the portraits.

[Phil Leeds]

Maybe, just maybe, there is no definitive image of Beethoven, but rather subjective interpretations as varied as the interpretations of his music. Maybe everyone sees, and hears, him just a little bit differently, this being reflected in the portraits.

Nice idea - but I have my doubts. There must have been at least one artisit that tried to capture the Man.

[al1432]

Phil...I just noticed that your name and that of your town are the same

[TiberiaClaudia]

Phil-

Yeah, the avatar is a cellular pic I took of myself...I had another on but it wasn't updated (with the freshly added highlights in my hair) so I quickly grabbed that one with my phone I live on coffee--about the strength Beethoven preferred, too!! Espresso, iced coffee, Cafe Americano (for the less hyper days)...and wine, of course! Though as I mentioned to another dear member named Philip, I do prefer the whites to reds--unless it's something Uncle Vito made. So I'm sure I have that look Ferdinand Schimon captured a lot of the time! *Scrutinizes avatar*

Al-I do think Beethoven is one of the most romanticized individuals in history!

But I also agree with Phil that there had to be some representation that was truly Beethoven and not so much the idealisation of Beethoven.

TC

[Phil Leeds]

I'm sure you don't TC I probably have the look of him on his deathbed after too much red wine/whisky in the evening

Re the romanticised images of Beethoven, I think that's why I like the Karel de Dake portrait because it isn't romanticised and seems to fit descriptions I have read.

[TiberiaClaudia]

I'm sure you don't TC I probably have the look of him on his deathbed after too much red wine/whisky in the evening

*Laughs out loud*

I'm sure you don't look that way at all, Phil. You should have seen me on New Years' Eve...Jager...:O

[Quijote]

*Laughs out loud*

I'm sure you don't look that way at all, Phil. You should have seen me on New Years' Eve...Jager...:O

You don't happen to have any photos of that event, do you by any chance, TC?

I remain, Madam, that 'other dear member named Philip'.