What happened to the harpsichord?

[Preston]

I was wondering why the harpsichord, basically, stopped being used once the piano came out? I don't understand, did the classicist and romantics not like it. I was thinking that if Bach, Handel, etc., used the harpsichord than surely it must be a good instrument. Thanks for any help, .

[TiberiaClaudia]

An Informative Link

"Well into the 18th century, the harpsichord was considered to have advantages and disadvantages with respect to the piano.

Through the 19th century, the harpsichord was ignored by composers, the piano having supplanted it."

From: http://www.ukpianos.co.uk/harpsichord-history.html

From what I understand it seems that the piano just took over because it met the demands of the "new" music and allowed composers to expand into areas the harpsichord could not. I remember hearing that Beethoven when young snapped stings because the instruments of the day could not stand up to what he was attempting. I don't know if this is lore or actual fact, but there it is...

In any event, that harpsichord link is pretty informative on all aspects of the instrument. Hope it is useful--

Cheers,

TC

PS-I just found this, too, if you like diagrams: http://www.cfa.ilstu.edu/mhdicke/152/notes/piano.html

[Chris]

The piano is a more expressive instrument. But the harpsichord was still used - think of opera.

[Preston]

I agree that the piano is a much more expressive instrument. It was just that the greats of the Baroque era used it so often, I thought that there must be something great behind the harpsichord.

Opera, I haven't listened to that much opera but when I have I think I have heard it a couple of times. It must bring out the voice, why else would it be used more in opera?

[Sorrano]

I think that is a very good question, Preston. It is still a very good instrument and I feel should certainly not be neglected. While I am not familiar with many current compositions that require harpsichord you might, if you get a chance, to listen to Ligeti's Continuum. It is quite unreal what he did in that work with the harpsichord.

[Preston]

Thanks Sorrano. I read about it on Wikipedia. I think I listened to the piece you suggested, not sure though. I listened only briefly on Amazon. Couldn't find it for harpsichord though, just piano, organ, and something else (can't remember). It was fast the part I heard, and then the other part I heard seemed to be slow. So I don't know if I listened to the right thing.

Sorrano, quick question, are you trained in the study of music. If so, what do you think about the musicality of Jeremy Soule? I remember when we talked about gaming and you said that you played Oblivion, so I was wondering.

[DavidO]

I was wondering why the harpsichord, basically, stopped being used once the piano came out? I don't understand, did the classicist and romantics not like it. I was thinking that if Bach, Handel, etc., used the harpsichord than surely it must be a good instrument. Thanks for any help, .

A sort of sister of the harpsichord, the clavichord, transmogrified in the 20th century into the clavinet, manufactured by the German company Hohner.

http://lennyg47.tripod.com/tempodemo...I_record_1.jpg

From Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach to Stevie Wonder!

Even Fleetwood Mac used the clavinet on "You Make Loving Fun"!

[Gurn Blanston]

The single biggest reason for the demise of the harpsichord in favor of the fortepiano was the inability of the cembalo to play in different dynamic ranges (loud and soft to us non-musicologists). Once composers discovered the expressive quality of dynamics, and the fact that fortepianos could "do" them, the handwriting was on the wall.

As for clavichords, I have several disks of music played on them (Mozart, Eckard and mainly CPE Bach). They are wonderfully expressive, and even allow for effects that the piano can't reproduce (like stretching notes - Bebüng). But they don't play loud enough to be heard in even a large room. They are really a private instrument, many composers of the era had them in their rooms to use to compose on at night without waking the neighbors.

Since Baroque keyboard music (and much orchestral music, for that matter) don't use dynamics, the harpsichord is perfect for them. I happen to love the sound, but only for music that was composed for it.


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Now playing:
Bach Cembalo Toccatas - Christiane Jaccottet - BWV 912 Toccata for Cembalo in D

[Peter]

The single biggest reason for the demise of the harpsichord in favor of the fortepiano was the inability of the cembalo to play in different dynamic ranges (loud and soft to us non-musicologists). Once composers discovered the expressive quality of dynamics, and the fact that fortepianos could "do" them, the handwriting was on the wall.

As for clavichords, I have several disks of music played on them (Mozart, Eckard and mainly CPE Bach). They are wonderfully expressive, and even allow for effects that the piano can't reproduce (like stretching notes - Bebüng). But they don't play loud enough to be heard in even a large room. They are really a private instrument, many composers of the era had them in their rooms to use to compose on at night without waking the neighbors.

Since Baroque keyboard music (and much orchestral music, for that matter) don't use dynamics, the harpsichord is perfect for them. I happen to love the sound, but only for music that was composed for it.


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Now playing:
Bach Cembalo Toccatas - Christiane Jaccottet - BWV 912 Toccata for Cembalo in D

You are confusing loud/soft (which the harpsichord could do) with getting louder and softer (which it could not). The dynamic markings that appear in baroque scores have led to much misunderstanding - because generally Bach only indicated louds and softs (a system that came to be known as terrace dynamics) many interpreters took this literally assuming he meant no graduation of tone - this is clearly nonsense and unmusical. Baroque keyboard music is also far more ornamental (trills, mordents, etc) than classical, precisely to make the music more expressive in the absence of crescendos, diminuendos and sforzandi.

As to the Bebüng (echo effect) - Beethoven actually uses this in his Pastorale Sonata Op.28 first movement, but it was definitely a throw back.

[Peter]

I was wondering why the harpsichord, basically, stopped being used once the piano came out? I don't understand, did the classicist and romantics not like it. I was thinking that if Bach, Handel, etc., used the harpsichord than surely it must be a good instrument. Thanks for any help, .

Beethoven's Op.2 piano sonatas were actually published for piano or harpsichord - this was clearly the publishers trying to cash in because they simply are not playable on a harpsichord for reasons already expressed. It is no coincidence that the piano music of C.P.E.Bach exploits the new possibilities with plenty of sudden accents and wide variations in tone - his style greatly influenced Beethoven whose sonatas would not have existed had the piano not been invented. This doesn't make the harpsichord a bad instrument, it is simply different and suited to the music of its time. Another reason it went out of fashion is that Baroque orchestral music included a harpsichord continuo that underlined the bass part - this became redundant in later music, though Beethoven continued the tradition by having the piano doing the same in the orchestral (tutti) sections of his piano concerti - this practice is never observed today.

[Phil Leeds]

Beethoven's Op.2 piano sonatas were actually published for piano or harpsichord - this was clearly the publishers trying to cash in because they simply are not playable on a harpsichord for reasons already expressed. It is no coincidence that the piano music of C.P.E.Bach exploits the new possibilities with plenty of sudden accents and wide variations in tone - his style greatly influenced Beethoven whose sonatas would not have existed had the piano not been invented. This doesn't make the harpsichord a bad instrument, it is simply different and suited to the music of its time. Another reason it went out of fashion is that Baroque orchestral music included a harpsichord continuo that underlined the bass part - this became redundant in later music, though Beethoven continued the tradition by having the piano doing the same in the orchestral (tutti) sections of his piano concerti - this practice is never observed today.

That's interesting thanks. I enjoy Murray Perahia's recording of Brandenburg no.5 - he plays it on the piano. Recently saw Academy of Ancient Music play it at Leeds Town Hall where harpsichord was used.

[Gurn Blanston]

You are confusing loud/soft (which the harpsichord could do) with getting louder and softer (which it could not). The dynamic markings that appear in baroque scores have led to much misunderstanding - because generally Bach only indicated louds and softs (a system that came to be known as terrace dynamics) many interpreters took this literally assuming he meant no graduation of tone - this is clearly nonsense and unmusical. Baroque keyboard music is also far more ornamental (trills, mordents, etc) than classical, precisely to make the music more expressive in the absence of crescendos, diminuendos and sforzandi.

As to the Bebüng (echo effect) - Beethoven actually uses this in his Pastorale Sonata Op.28 first movement, but it was definitely a throw back.

Sorry, Peter. Probably confusing my readers due to my incoherent writing style, although I know perfectly well that you are correct.

If I am not mistaken, the 2 (or more) registers on a harpsichord produce different volumes. Is this what is meant by "terrace dynamics"?


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Now playing:
BWV 1004 Violin Partita #2 in d - Itzhak Perlman - BWV 1004 Violin Partita #2 in d-pt.1-Allemanda

[Peter]

Sorry, Peter. Probably confusing my readers due to my incoherent writing style, although I know perfectly well that you are correct.

If I am not mistaken, the 2 (or more) registers on a harpsichord produce different volumes. Is this what is meant by "terrace dynamics"?


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Now playing:
BWV 1004 Violin Partita #2 in d - Itzhak Perlman - BWV 1004 Violin Partita #2 in d-pt.1-Allemanda

I often read through my posts and think what a long winded mess - my dreams of a literary career long ago shattered! Terrace dynamics is a general term applied to all genres of baroque music, not just keyboard. I think it was an early 20th century misunderstanding as composers only marked the basic dynamics and expected the performer to do the rest.

[Chris]

When did the thoughts on that change? I certainly remember learning about terrace dynamics in a music class I took in 1999.

[Peter]

When did the thoughts on that change? I certainly remember learning about terrace dynamics in a music class I took in 1999.

Let me quote from Paul Bardura-Skoda:

'Terrace dynamics' is a concept which is occasionally misunderstood and sometimes misused. In orchestral works (such as overtures, suites, and especially concerti grossi) terrace dynamics came into being by the alternation of tutti and solo (or concertino passages). It would of course be wrong to suppose that within a 'terrace' one should be inflexible in the use of forte or piano, though it would be equally wrong to introduce crescendos or decrescendos designed to turn the terraces into slopes. We should treat the concept of terrace dynamics with caution, for the term was coined only about a hundred years ago. In fact, the baroque era probably made far greater use of dynamics than we now like to suppose.