On This Day!

[Sorrano]

Firstly I'm afraid I was born in the even dottier 9th month of the old Roman calendar. I agree that dates shouldn't have much to do with it, but historians love classification. Broadly speaking the general music categories are as you know Baroque 1600-1750, Classical 1750-1830, Romantic 1820-1900 - with obvious overlappings and transitional phases with some composers falling neatly into one and others not. Schubert is regarded as a late classical but transitional figure with Romantic tendencies! I dare say had he lived well into the 19th century he would have become a full blooded Brucknerian Romantic!

I have to admit that I don't consider Bruckner to be very Romantic as his music is so regulated by the need for balance, not only formally, but in terms of phrasing, harmonies, etc. His counterpoint, too, reflects a pre-Classical period and while his harmonic language reflects the current trends his heart is not among the Romantics.

Schubert's larger scale works certainly reflect the Classical period but his songs and other smaller works have more of a tendency to be composed in a free form, a fantasy type, if you will. I find nothing Classical about his songs, but his symphonies, I do.

[susanwen]

My birthday is in December also - today, in fact.

My mother tells me (because I don't remember) that when I was in first grade, age 6, the teacher asked all the children "when is your birthday?" because she was making a calendar to celebrate each child, and I answered "December 16th is Beethoven's birthday, and mine is the day after." That was the way I remembered my birthday then - the day after Beethoven's.

[Peter]

My birthday is in December also - today, in fact.

My mother tells me (because I don't remember) that when I was in first grade, age 6, the teacher asked all the children "when is your birthday?" because she was making a calendar to celebrate each child, and I answered "December 16th is Beethoven's birthday, and mine is the day after." That was the way I remembered my birthday then - the day after Beethoven's.

Happy Birthday Susanwen!

[Peter]

I have to admit that I don't consider Bruckner to be very Romantic as his music is so regulated by the need for balance, not only formally, but in terms of phrasing, harmonies, etc. His counterpoint, too, reflects a pre-Classical period and while his harmonic language reflects the current trends his heart is not among the Romantics.

Schubert's larger scale works certainly reflect the Classical period but his songs and other smaller works have more of a tendency to be composed in a free form, a fantasy type, if you will. I find nothing Classical about his songs, but his symphonies, I do.

Well yes Sorrano it is in his songs that the Romantic element is most obvious -also in works such as the Trout quintet where Rosen points out he is the first to write an exposition modulating to the subdominant, weakening the classical harmonic tension and replacing it with a freer more melodic expansiveness. Having said that, Schubert consistently took Beethoven's forms as his model.

[ruudp]

Happy birthday susan

[Joy]

Hi Susan. Happy Birthday!

[PDG]

Well yes Sorrano it is in his songs that the Romantic element is most obvious -also in works such as the Trout quintet where Rosen points out he is the first to write an exposition modulating to the subdominant, weakening the classical harmonic tension and replacing it with a freer more melodic expansiveness. Having said that, Schubert consistently took Beethoven's forms as his model.

Precisely, Peter. We are still unsure how exactly to pigeon-hole Schubert. So the answer is to leave him alone! I think this is why he left so much music unfinished. Imagine him living in Beethoven's formidable Viennese shadow and trying to emulate his hero, while at the same time seeking out his own distinctive direction and voice, with little or no encouragement from publishers or patrons. His was an impossible situation.

[Quijote]

I have to admit that I don't consider Bruckner to be very Romantic as his music is so regulated by the need for balance, not only formally, but in terms of phrasing, harmonies, etc. His counterpoint, too, reflects a pre-Classical period and while his harmonic language reflects the current trends his heart is not among the Romantics.

Schubert's larger scale works certainly reflect the Classical period but his songs and other smaller works have more of a tendency to be composed in a free form, a fantasy type, if you will. I find nothing Classical about his songs, but his symphonies, I do.

We will need to address your points later, Sorrano. But I won't ruin your Christmas.

[Sorrano]

We will need to address your points later, Sorrano. But I won't ruin your Christmas.

Ahhh, you'd rather "ruin" my New Year with a BETTER view on the topics? I see. I await, but not with held breath.

[Quijote]

Ahhh, you'd rather "ruin" my New Year with a BETTER view on the topics? I see. I await, but not with held breath.

Only you, my dear 'gnat', choose to employ words such as 'better', 'judge' and so on. It is curious, I admit, but only mildly so ... rather like gnats, in fact. I think the phrase 'baited breath' to be the 'better' (gasp!) expression. More impact, see?

[Sorrano]

Only you, my dear 'gnat', choose to employ words such as 'better', 'judge' and so on. It is curious, I admit, but only mildly so ... rather like gnats, in fact. I think the phrase 'baited breath' to be the 'better' (gasp!) expression. More impact, see?

Why use the word 'bait' when I succeed in doing just that with the use of the word 'better'?

[Quijote]

You certainly got me there!! Merry Christmas !