On This Day!

[Sorrano]

Hector Berlioz was born this day.

[Peter]

Yes the first of the great Romantic composers and one of the most original. Is it really 4 years since the bicentenary? Incredible!

[Sorrano]

Yes the first of the great Romantic composers and one of the most original. Is it really 4 years since the bicentenary? Incredible!

Do you mean 4 years TO the bicentennial?

[Peter]

Do you mean 4 years TO the bicentennial?

No he was born in 1803.

[Sorrano]

No he was born in 1803.

I should have remembered that! Sometimes I confuse the date with the year.

[PDG]

Yes the first of the great Romantic composers and one of the most original. Is it really 4 years since the bicentenary? Incredible!

Wasn't Schubert the first great Romantic (being born before Berlioz)? Because if not, it surely makes him the last great Traditional Classicist. Or was he both? Gee, what a talent...

[PDG]

I should have remembered that! Sometimes I confuse the date with the year.

It's easy to remember, Sorrano. He was born at 18:03, or three minutes past six in the evening.

[Peter]

Wasn't Schubert the first great Romantic (being born before Berlioz)? Because if not, it surely makes him the last great Traditional Classicist. Or was he both? Gee, what a talent...

There are elements of both in his work with Classical forms combined with Romantic emphasis on melody, but dying in virtual obscurity, his influence on the next generation was small and certainly nothing like that of Weber who born in 1786 perhaps I should have given the accolade to.

[PDG]

Well, I'm sure your accolade means as much as an Oscar to these composers, Peter! However, I don't think relative fame during one's lifetime should determine one's place in history, especially if the Truth outs itself later.
I know little of Weber. Please direct me to some works of his which demonstrate the genius, thematic originality, charm and sheer brilliance of Schubert, and I'll gladly listen to them.

[DavidO]

I know little of Weber. Please direct me to some works of his which demonstrate the genius, thematic originality, charm and sheer brilliance of Schubert, and I'll gladly listen to them.

I don't know much Weber, either -- except for Freischütz. I was listening to Jim Svejda a few weeks back on a drive out of town. If you're outside the States, you might not know his name. He's one of the preeminent classical radio announcers in the country; he works at the Los Angeles public radio station KUSC nowadays, & he's been on the air for decades (www.kusc.org/php/Programming/svejda.php).

Anyway, Svejda was about to play something or other by Weber, & led in to it by saying that, besides Freischütz & a few scattered piano pieces, Weber "bored the tears" out of him (uncharacteristic of Svejda to be quite so extreme), & furthermore that Weber was one of Beethoven's harshest critics in his lifetime, & Weber couldn't hold a candle to B., & so on & so forth.

(Oddly enough, the Eroica is being broadcast right now on KUSC as I type this -- it's the Zurich Tonhalle under David Zinman.)

Anyway again, I'll one of these days give Weber a chance to impress me. Besides Freischütz, what should I hear?

[Peter]

Well, I'm sure your accolade means as much as an Oscar to these composers, Peter! However, I don't think relative fame during one's lifetime should determine one's place in history, especially if the Truth outs itself later.
I know little of Weber. Please direct me to some works of his which demonstrate the genius, thematic originality, charm and sheer brilliance of Schubert, and I'll gladly listen to them.

I consider that Schubert is a greater composer but it doesn't alter the fact that Weber was a major influence on early Romantic music in a way that Schubert was not. To assist you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Maria_von_Weber

[PDG]

I consider that Schubert is a greater composer but it doesn't alter the fact that Weber was a major influence on early Romantic music in a way that Schubert was not. To assist you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Maria_von_Weber

Thanks for the link, I will listen and report back.

Without wishing to get bogged down in semantics, you described Berlioz as the first great Romantic composer. And yet above, you concede that Schubert was a greater composer than Weber (after substituting Berlioz for him!). You seem to have swung Great Romantic Composer around to Great Romantic Influence - two entirely different things.

[Peter]

Thanks for the link, I will listen and report back.

Without wishing to get bogged down in semantics, you described Berlioz as the first great Romantic composer. And yet above, you concede that Schubert was a greater composer than Weber (after substituting Berlioz for him!). You seem to have swung Great Romantic Composer around to Great Romantic Influence - two entirely different things.

Oh PDG let Berlioz have his birthday in peace! Schubert is not generally regarded as a Romantic composer, but a late classical composer, a transitional figure if you like. The definitions are not mine, simply what is generally accepted by the historians - take it up with them if you are in disagreement. If you want me to be specific let me say that of the first generation of 19th century Romantic composers (born after 1800, Mendelssohn, Wagner, Liszt, Schumann, Chopin) then Berlioz was the first to be born.

[PDG]

Okay, but assuming Schubert didn't compose anything of worth before the age of 4, then he too was a 19th century composer (though quite what the entering of a new century has to do with the price of fish is beyond me, frankly).

I will let Berlioz enjoy his birthday; btw, Peter, I know that yours, like mine, is also in this mad month of December. So here's to us!

[Peter]

Okay, but assuming Schubert didn't compose anything of worth before the age of 4, then he too was a 19th century composer (though quite what the entering of a new century has to do with the price of fish is beyond me, frankly).

I will let Berlioz enjoy his birthday; btw, Peter, I know that yours, like mine, is also in this mad month of December. So here's to us!

Firstly I'm afraid I was born in the even dottier 9th month of the old Roman calendar. I agree that dates shouldn't have much to do with it, but historians love classification. Broadly speaking the general music categories are as you know Baroque 1600-1750, Classical 1750-1830, Romantic 1820-1900 - with obvious overlappings and transitional phases with some composers falling neatly into one and others not. Schubert is regarded as a late classical but transitional figure with Romantic tendencies! I dare say had he lived well into the 19th century he would have become a full blooded Brucknerian Romantic!