Historical performances of the 9th Symphony

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by Rod:
When you go to a Beethoven concert or buy a CD it is a total lottery as to what you are going to hear, more so than with any other composer. Frankly, for me this is not good enough. If musicians can't work out how a piece should be performed after 200 years then something is seriously wrong. When to adagio of the 9th can last 11 or 20 minutes long, as it can be in performance, both cannot be acceptable, there is enough information in the score and with research to come to an almost concrete conclusion. Surely reading music cannot be that difficult.

I could say that 200 years is a long time in which to FORGET something. Radically differing interpretations are not unique to Beethoven, I have seen them with other composers too. For instance, I have two copies of Mahler's 5th, (despite not liking it) one by Karajan, and another less known one, and Movement times between them are different. The fourth movement (the slow one) on the Karajan is about 12 minutes, whereas on the other it is exactly 9 minutes. Granted, it's not as big a difference, but it is a difference. I think that to a certain extent, Mahler has the same problem you say Beethoven has; his works should be conducted faster than they are, a trend which started with those historical conductors that the discussion was origionally about. Also, the high school band I was a part of until recently did a piece by a more recent composer named Alfred Reed. The score gives a time of about 12 minutes for the piece. The recording we heard was over 16 minutes long. Our performance was between 14 and 15 minutes.

Bob

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I am not a number, I am a free man!

[kerryblue]

Hey, Bob. So much with Beethoven (and I can't profess the technical expertise of other posters)in my view depends on tempo readings, and of course our enjoyment of various tempi is subjective--still, I find many of today's interpetations of the 9th to be conducted as if the recording studio were on fire--one such reading crams the whole symphony into 59 minutes (much to the delight of classical dj's who can finish the piece in under an hour. A little quick for me!

By the way--you are number 6!

Regards

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
I could say that 200 years is a long time in which to FORGET something. Radically differing interpretations are not unique to Beethoven, I have seen them with other composers too. For instance, I have two copies of Mahler's 5th, (despite not liking it) one by Karajan, and another less known one, and Movement times between them are different. The fourth movement (the slow one) on the Karajan is about 12 minutes, whereas on the other it is exactly 9 minutes. Granted, it's not as big a difference, but it is a difference. I think that to a certain extent, Mahler has the same problem you say Beethoven has; his works should be conducted faster than they are, a trend which started with those historical conductors that the discussion was origionally about. Also, the high school band I was a part of until recently did a piece by a more recent composer named Alfred Reed. The score gives a time of about 12 minutes for the piece. The recording we heard was over 16 minutes long. Our performance was between 14 and 15 minutes.

Bob

[Rod]

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
... The score gives a time of about 12 minutes for the piece. The recording we heard was over 16 minutes long. Our performance was between 14 and 15 minutes.

Bob

Fair enough, but does 2, 3 or 4 minutes, or even more, make much difference with Mahler? Does it save the listener from suicidal misery?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Bob the Composer]

Originally posted by Rod:
Fair enough, but does 2, 3 or 4 minutes, or even more, make much difference with Mahler? Does it save the listener from suicidal misery?

In the case of this particular Mahler Symphony, No. The only symphony he wrote that is to me worth listening all the way through is his first. And in this case, I also have two recordings, both of which have indentical timings! Anyway, I suppose I could say yes to your question because then you don't have to spend as much time listening to Mahler's 5th if you are forced into such torture.

Bob

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I am not a number, I am a free man!

[This message has been edited by Bob the Composer (edited 07-18-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Bob the Composer:
Anyway, I suppose I could say yes to your question because then you don't have to spend as much time listening to Mahler's 5th if you are forced into such torture.

I never looked at it from this perspective Bob. You are quite right, for those who by some great crime of humanity were forced to listen to this 'music', the authentic approach would indeed be welcome and merciful!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin